Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

0:00 We got Dan from Arcus Power on today, all the way down from Calgary, as we've otherwise known as cold Texas. So Dan and I were just talking here, we got our energy tight night and a couple weeks

0:11 up in Calgary. And so I'm excited to get up there. Dan, thanks for being on. It's my pleasure. Yeah, man. So tell me what is what is Arcus? Dan was laughing because he came in here and I was

0:24 like, Hey, look, dude, I don't know anything about you. I don't know anything about a company said I take zero preparation coming into here. It's just a genuine conversation. So give me the

0:32 lowdown on what Arcus is and what you guys do. Absolutely. Arcus is an energy tech company founded by myself back in 2017. And you know, I could say in the last three years, we've saved our large

0:47 power consumers about a quarter billion dollars and helped them manage about 100, 000 tons of CO2 abatement as well, while using our technology to help them with decision making process around how

0:58 they can better manage their energy costs. tied to their operations and improve their operating margins while doing so at the same time. We operate across North America. We are past the startup

1:12 mode and into growth mode with a proven technology to support all parts of the commodity value chain associated with power generation and consumption through to consumption. And some of our largest

1:28 customers are in the oil and gas sector. Coming from Alberta, it's the energy hub of Canada. Canada is in the top five energy producing economies in the world. And it's in

1:46 our culture and our history. And it's much aligned with what we see here in Texas. And yeah, you know, you Texas size the opportunity and the value that we've been able to deliver to date that

1:57 quarter billion and it measures well into the billions of dollars. value that we can deliver to energy consumers here. And of course, oil and gas industry here plays a big part of that ecosystem in

2:07 the state. And

2:10 it's actually, when you think about where ARK has started, the idea came from a commodity cycle downturn in oil back in 2016. Price has collapsed again and being in a boomer bus town tied to oil

2:25 and gas.

2:27 It's not unfamiliar to see massive layoffs hit the sector and it's kind of a depressing time. And I was coming out of an energy trading role. I was actually happily in an energy trading role. And I

2:35 just saw the opportunity to provide a

2:43 software-enabled solution to the industry to support managing their costs through troubled times. And now it's since expanded to be predictive AI, SaaS-enabled solution that is expanding across

2:57 North America. Very cool, so your trader is your background. And prior to that, I was working in oil and gas for a small EP. Okay.

3:09 I was prospecting for shallow gas. Yeah. And looking for the hole in the donut.

3:18 And I thought back then, again, commodity cycles, life is good, I'm making money, I'm owning in the wells that I'm drilling and then that all turned. And

3:31 gas just continued to crater for, well, ever. Yeah. And then I transitioned into energy trading, electricity trading. Okay. And that marked a future career and the impetus for that was, well,

3:47 I learned how to short natural gas to protect my neck when the prices were collapsing and it was one of the earlier things that had done to help me transition my career. Yeah, that's a kind of

3:57 interesting going from working at an EMP to trading electricity.

4:04 How did you make that jump? Why did you make that jump? Kind of tell me about that a little bit because I don't know anything about trading electricity. So it seems like that'd be a hard thing to

4:14 go from EMP life to doing that.

4:17 You know, molecules and electrons in even calories are all

4:26 energy rate And so - I love that you brought up calories. There's a guy on Twitter the other day. Sorry to interrupt your story here, but there's a guy on Twitter and essentially he was saying that

4:33 there's all these studies that showed that more effort put out in Barkhouse didn't burn more calories. I'm like, dude, this is a matter of energy and what you're saying does not make sense. And so

4:44 yeah, it doesn't matter if it's an electron, a molecule or a calorie, energy is energy, right? So we'll have to, sometimes we'll have to do a deep dive kind of on that spectrum of intersections

4:56 of. of different types of energy, but go ahead. So I just, they weren't so dissimilar in understanding that it's a commodity and that it's volatile and that I've been engaged in that side of the

5:07 market. And when I had the opportunity to move over to power, it was kind of a sink or swim opportunity. They say, Well, if you're still here in six months, then it's probably working out. And

5:22 I spent nearly a decade in the space and - Cool And it was a very rewarding career. And it was all of those hours, and the seeing of

5:33 energy price prints across markets all over North America that really tuned my ability in forecasting and thinking about tariff and rate structures and how ultimately that information was gonna

5:47 benefit the consumer side of the market too. And now, Today, we're looking at, you know, what they say referred to as the democratization of energy intelligence, and meaning that these tools and

6:00 solutions that we can now deliver in the market are of the same caliber and quality are not dissimilar to what generator-owned utilities and power producers have

6:12 at their availability to help with the decision-making process on how they maximize their portfolio Now the consumers have the wherewithal to help make decisions around how they consume electricity.

6:27 And that's what's super cool. Oil and gas midstream is a part of the industry that we really support. And when you look at how they manage compression across their infrastructure, those electric

6:41 motors or massive, massive engines that have a lot of costs associated with them, electricity number one or two. line item associated with operating those pieces of equipment. And when you look at

6:54 how they can manage that dynamically, that's when the world gets really interesting. Yeah. So do you guys fall in the category? Like I've seen people trying to like put a, kind of like a tagline

7:04 like energy management as a service or things of that nature. Like how do you like classify what you guys are doing? So to some extent we are energy management as a service, but we're really a

7:19 software enabled solution. So you can use that signal right at the control layer to help with instant on off signals and decision making. So you can scale it across your system. Yeah. And the

7:33 predictive component of what we do is something that provides a bridge where, now subject to your own specified parameters, you don't need to rely on somebody who's clipping a 30 coupon for

7:46 providing

7:49 service to you. I have the technology available to me that helps my variable component to my energy bill be managed through a software application. I

8:00 feel like we've just really been able to hit the turbo on it now with the new AI tools that are rolling out into the market. As a company, we have been working and developing neural nets and

8:17 forecasting models for a decade. And

8:22 the underpinning of that and the foundation behind us right now is we own one of North America's largest power market databases. And so both the insights that we make in our models and the data

8:32 itself is available to the end users. Yeah, I mean, it's just a really cool time to be building with, you know, use the word democratization earlier, like the democratization of AI technology.

8:43 And, you know, ever since language models really came on the scene with. GPT and being able to take some really cool tech off-the-shelf and then you know package it together fine-tune it deploy it

8:56 within these within these systems and so What do you use for AI tools today? shit, dude all of them I mean if if you look at like what do I personally use? top two tools that I use personally are

9:12 gonna be perplexity and Chad GPT,

9:17 but then if you look within our company, I mean we've built our own retrieval augmented generation here With klight AI and have deployed it at NOV and pro frack and If you look at it, like we

9:28 wouldn't have been able to do that three years ago We had the idea but we wouldn't have been able to execute on it just because it was cost prohibitive You know, I don't have the resources to go

9:38 compete with Amazon and Google and meta for the best machine learning experts and data scientists out there and so And then if you look even internally.

9:51 like in our workflows and our data ingestion, I mean, using, you know, Cloud and GPT for digesting information and helping us with the meta-tagging, like it's just like crazy. Like how much you

10:04 can like right now stack, just AI on top of each other within workflows. And so I just think that it's a cool time to be a builder building enterprise software like you guys are and being able to

10:18 take some really cool technology and inject it into what y'all are already doing. So when we think about

10:26 AI at

10:28 ARCHUS, there are three ways to think about it as a creator, which we build these forecast models and these really cool insights. Then there's as a user and

10:41 how do we use it to our own advantage? And, you know, I mean, even my quick hack at work now is I transcribe things through Otter when I'm taking my dog for a walk in the morning. Yeah. And it

10:53 just gets shipped out right away. I love it. And I made a video on Twitter. So I was one of the first beta users for the GPT voice chat last year and I'd go on five mile walks and I'd be talking to

11:06 the bot. I just had my airbags in and I love it because I'll just dump out all my thoughts, talk to it and then I'd have it generate a memo from that to send out to my investors or my team And

11:16 anyways, I post that on Twitter in the head of business development for OpenAI. I start to follow on me probably. As I do, this is like the biggest life hack. I can go get my walks in and get a

11:27 workout in while talking to the AI. And so I love to hear that you're using it in a similar fashion. But the thing where we're at today though, with Arkis, is that our domain expertise and our

11:40 data is required still, you know, with all of these AI widgets and tools that are available to us. Without those other two ingredients, it's almost impossible to make the next iteration or the

11:52 next best thing. Our model training time has improved 100-fold. Our ability to scale and share our technology with others, same thing. But without that market knowledge, that domain expertise,

12:05 and then know-how of what we're building with the data behind it to scale, you can't get there The only modes moving forward in AI are differentiated or proprietary data sets, knowledge bases, and

12:21 having domain expertise to be able to fine-tune and deploy models is super important. Trust me, that's my pitch in raising capital on Glide. And I believe that through and through, so it's awesome

12:35 to hear that you guys have this really large database of power market information and be able to layer AI on top of that. When you were trading,

12:47 When did you get the, when was the inception for this idea? How did that come about? So it was back when, you know, we went through that downturn in oil and gas and I was looking at battery

12:58 storage economics at the same time. So without a substantial subsidy back in 2016, the battery economics didn't go around. It didn't make sense. And so in that I was learning about the tariffs

13:15 being on just the energy market price volatility. And by the way, electricity market is the most volatile commodity of all the commodities, even Bitcoin, right? And so

13:33 to that end, you're looking at something that's very dynamic and has a lot of value if you can understand and measure the risk when the volatility is going to occur So Preparing that with the

13:46 knowledge about the rates where users can avoid costs during high demand periods and then overlaying the other and celery service buckets and demand response opportunities, demand side management

13:59 types of market opportunities that they participate in, how they managed all of those in concert with one another and thought about the actual value to their operation rather than getting a retail

14:10 contract, the retailer, whoops, a coupon, having a demand response aggregator, provide the demand side management. They get a coupon. There's a lot of people lining up to get paid to provide

14:24 support, but you're all solving the same problem. And if you can do it from a common source, then what you're really left with is the opportunity to provide superior value to you as the consumer.

14:37 And that's what we strive to do when we engage with our customers every day at Arcus And so. That idea started back in 2016, when there was another oil downturn, and I was looking at, you know,

14:49 layoffs everywhere and realizing that, man, I have enough of an understanding about forecasting these volatile periods in the energy market that I can deliver substantial savings to the oil and gas

15:01 industry. Furthermore,

15:05 the enabling technologies were there at the time because cloud had been accepted as a digital platform in which you could share information from organization to organization, and those barriers had

15:18 been broken down. There's still some out there that - Sure, but they're out there. Which is crazy to me, but - But then

15:26 that's, yeah, they're kind of on the fringe and there are still a lot of analog hurdles to address two in the oil and gas. But it is crazy. I mean, you're telling them that was like 2016, but it

15:38 was like 2018 when we started this podcast, like using the cloud still wasn't like. thing in oil and gas. So that was like a big hurdle to come over. Well, did you ever have to go in and read the

15:49 production data from an well well on

15:53 that wheel? Yeah, on the charts. So, you know, we've come a long way since then, right? And

16:04 I think that's the point, though, that we now have a gateway to share the information And then with my domain expertise and the amount of data that we processed, made it a good candidate for

16:15 machine learning, I recognized that with the right data behind us, we had what we needed to deliver a software solution to the market. And so that was back in 2016, but it took some years just

16:27 figuring out what the front end looked like and how to coordinate with the customers. It takes a long time to build shit. A lot of people don't realize that. I bootstrapped it for the first several

16:36 years It's awesome and and through just being dedicated and and doing what I said I was going to do, you know. Let's talk about that. I mean, you know, bootstrapping to get a product built. I

16:50 mean, it's hard and, you know, it takes just a lot of time and grit and effort. So what was the thought behind that? You know,

16:60 did you wanna, you know, get kind of this MVP built? Did you bring on a team to help with it? What are those early days look like? The early days were

17:13 thinking about what a partnership was gonna look like and then my partner saying this isn't gonna work, right? When we had just finished going through all of our legal documentation and yet a life

17:24 circumstance showed up that just made it not possible for him. So I was sitting there with some friends and family money in my pocket that had already raised and now I've lost my sales guy and I

17:38 realized, well, okay, I'm going to have to take this on by myself. And so my first engagement, I remember going to the customer and sitting in their office next to their control room and

17:48 describing to them how the energy cost management interface works. And it's a great show to me. And when I started drawing it on a whiteboard, I thought he was going to kick me out of his office

17:57 because he was expecting me to see a software demo.

18:02 We're going to build this together. And here's how. And I just outlined to him how I was going to take what he shared with me and mocking up an interface, turn it into a wireframe, refine it and

18:11 then give him his software beta. Yeah. And that's how we did it. That's awesome. And I worked with a small local dev shop and we put all the pieces together and that was the beginning of our first

18:25 beta and our prototype went to market. And then we spent a couple of years refining and building a performance record behind our forecasting and our capabilities that gave us some credibility in the

18:38 market.

18:41 with a front end that people could get behind, then we were able to start some early sales. Yeah. Yeah. And then when we figured out how to price it and how to sell it, that's when things really

18:51 started to take off. Yeah. And then private equity partner came along. Nice. And then they helped us. So they all raised some institutional capital from private equity. Yeah, cool.

19:04 So for you, clients sound like oil and gas operators and help me get some clarity on, you may have other clients outside of oil and gas operators, but let's focus on oil and gas operators first,

19:19 because I can only handle so many things at one time. But with oil and gas operators, if they deploy your software and your technology, are they essentially managing all of their assets across a

19:34 lease to

19:36 manage the power and electricity consumption to those. especially like I think like in states like Texas where you have ancillary services, demand response, things like that. Yep. Yeah, just

19:48 give me some. So this is a great, okay, so this is a great starting point. So

19:53 you can look at it in electrified oil field. You know, and let's say they participate in, well right now, even today, there's a potential 4CP event. So are you familiar with points in peak

20:05 periods? No. So - Some of them are 4CPs. Over the summer months in Texas, there's obviously high demand in the air-caught system. And when that system peaks each month, a peak is set over the

20:19 four summer months. And at that moment,

20:23 the system operator goes and looks at your energy consumption, and they'll assess a tariff charge on your facility. Okay. So what they're seeking is, the large consumers in these oil fields in

20:35 general would look to say, well, we may to avoid those high cost by turning down a portion of our operation, or if we have a battery, or some other, you know, behind the fence generation type,

20:48 look to offset that cost by turning that on and reducing our consumption from the grid. So that's what they're doing. And then, so that, that plus whatever they're doing for demand response is the

21:00 other side of it. Yeah.

21:12 And so you're familiar with that for me. This is all good, but talk about it because, one, you know more about the stuff than I do so I wanna hear about it, but I wanna like really dive into this

21:14 and - So most simply put,

21:19 there's a price at which any energy consumer is going to say, I'm gonna be upside down on my operating margins. And at that moment in time, I may be okay with interrupting my operation and turning

21:30 things down for a short period of time. And so whether that's through a coincident peak management or demand response or energy

21:39 price volatility, it doesn't matter, it's what moment is that price so great and that risk so high that I'm prepared to interrupt my operation. And that's the decision that we're supporting when

21:51 they're looking at their electrified oil fields and they're saying, well, how much of this operation can we turn down and if you can turn down a few megawatts, you know, it's worth a large amount

22:01 of money to that operator. They're going to do this a lot in our cut switch off and a lot of them make more money in demand response than they do mining So that's a customer segment of ours as well,

22:13 you know, and so we, you know, we're agnostic to the energy consumer type because if you're in, whether you're in manufacturing you don't matter if you're manufacturing or energy refrigeration for,

22:26 you know, sausage. Yeah, yeah. It's all, it's all the same. You have a, you are a large energy consumer and you have some flexibility and we look at managing your costs associated with that.

22:39 in a holistic way and in a way that is tailored to your parameters. Yeah. Because all of these are different, I mean, even if it's the same type of, you know, it's an EMP, oil and gas company.

22:53 I mean, there's gonna be high variance between those different companies, right, and their parameters. And so they'll all be unique in that respect. So the really cool thing about this is this

23:09 problem is not old. These market structures and these rates have existed for a long time. But it's enabling technology that exists today. It's just a size. And the tools that exist today is why

23:22 the opportunity is so strong. Yeah. And that's where we're at, is where we are at the forefront of that transition right now. And I don't call it an energy transition, I call it an energy

23:34 expansion And we see it every day. you cannot connect new loads in Texas today in many circumstances, because there's not enough generation. And so how does Texas' economy expand when this is the

23:52 situation we're faced with in the next five years? Yeah, and I mean, you look at just, there's a couple things happening. One, the rise of high performance computing and AI plus GPU clusters and

24:05 Bitcoin mining,

24:07 the trend of untwiring manufacturing, I mean, demand's going up. We know that. Power generation is one thing, really bottlenecks at transmission, transmitting electrons to where they need to be.

24:23 And so I see like large opportunities for the rise of distributed energy resources, things of this nature, but what enables distributed energy resources is software and being able to balance all of

24:36 this And, um, you know, being able to balance, hey, do we have flexible, dispatchable load that can turn off? And so it's been easy to like see this over the last couple of years where it's

24:49 like, hey, we can build more generation, we can build more transmission, but it was really it's software enabling the connection of all that to be able to manage it. And so it sounds like, you

24:59 know, that's the intersection that you guys are, I wanna say intersection is just kind of the alley that you guys are plowing down At the intersection of energy and technology is our potential to

25:13 create capacity in these systems.

25:18 And through developing technologies like Archis is enabling the potential for better coordination and demand side management really lends itself to creating while more room on energy systems to add

25:30 more load, to expand the economic potential of the region, to do these things and to do it in a cost effective way so that The existing operators aren't going to end upside down on their own

25:43 manufacturing facilities. These things are all super important right now. And the demand shock that we faced with data centers rolling out continued growth in the energy sector, it isn't going to

25:57 be met by the addition of generation onto the grid right now. It won't be met fast enough for the demand shock that we faced So if we're not addressing this capacity challenge by creating

26:09 efficiencies in the systems in the short term, the only thing that we're going to be faced with is rising costs. Yeah. And that's going to squeeze people on the margin out and it's probably going

26:18 to cause bigger problems like energy poverty and all sorts of crazy things are going to happen as a result of that. The backbone of America becomes at stake when you realize

26:28 somebody can no longer pay their Austin Electric bill or they can't operate because their energy prices It's not sustainable. Yeah, the,

26:42 you know, I don't think these conversations are mutually exclusive or it's like, hey, we need to add generation, but it's like we need to be more efficient in the system as well. You know, it

26:53 doesn't do anyone any good if we just invest all this CapEx into building new generation. And I mean, like you see this with like, you know, center point here in Houston, you know, energy rates

27:07 are going up, reliability is going down. You know, they spent all this CapEx and putting out these net gas turbines out at substations. Yeah, they haven't even been turned on. They haven't been

27:21 used. And it's like, that's like a perfect example. It's like you can put up all this CapEx spinning more on power generation, but ultimately, if you're not looking at efficiency in the system,

27:32 if you're not looking at, you know, maintenance on the system and center points case, like it doesn't matter. your reliability goes down and people's energy prices go up and that hurts. You hit

27:42 the nail on the head. If you are looking at efficiencies before you're looking at capital cost, you are looking at

27:52 the problem in the right order. And if you're seeking to find those operational efficiencies before you're spending on new generation, I think you're looking at it with the right dollar, the next

28:05 dollar spent in mind. And to me, we have no choice today, but to look at it that way, just because of the constraints we're faced with in power systems. And this is a global problem.

28:19 And that, yeah, you've nailed it exactly there. Yeah, yeah, and so, you know, there's just always a lot of debate and argument on Twitter about like, oh, you know, and you mourn that gas or

28:29 any more wind and just like, well, actually needs more efficiency, more transmission.

28:37 Yeah, that's what that's what I'm saying. I was like, I don't think that it's I don't think that it's like mutually exclusive or you know that that binary I'm like it's both but You just look at

28:49 current system and it's like there's so much efficiency gain there and and and we have to be efficient You know in Alberta. I think it was January 8th So my home province our electric system was

29:01 faced with a generation shortfall And we're in an emergency alert situation during the cold snap one of the You know, I mean it's a level of cold that you know is be like the hottest day of the year

29:12 here. Yeah,

29:15 it's cool. Yeah But think parkas. Yeah And they don't make them think enough. Yeah, appreciate you level set in here for the Texas boy And and in in that scenario the system operator was about to

29:29 Say we're in a position where we're gonna have to have rolling blackouts. Yeah But what they did was the.

29:37 the emergency alert system in the province, which is like the AMBA alert system you have here, sent a signal out to the entire province asking people to shut off their large electrics. And you can

29:49 see that drop on energy demand instantly within 20 minutes, several hundred megawatts was curtailed. And everybody on Twitter on social media was really not unlike Texans who just kind of have this,

30:04 like, we got this attitude.

30:08 The same thing happened there. And they were all very happy to participate in doing something that helped the system and helped avoid having to go through these rolling blackouts. Because if you're

30:18 in that situation or rolling brownouts, in that situation, bad things can happen. People's lives could be at risk. Infrastructure can be at risk. It is a potentially dangerous situation In doing

30:31 so, you know, what they really demonstrated was that what I think is essentially a one-in-tenure event that

30:40 absent having that generation capacity available,

30:45 the market itself was able to curtail without any real negative harm. And the avoided cost to the system itself is probably near the tune of a billion dollars. Yeah. So

30:58 just to kind of put a cherry on top of your point here about efficiency, it's to what extent do you need to build out the additional capacity needs. Now knowing that the consumer side of the market

31:13 can play such a crucial role in addressing the energy challenges that we're faced with in the future. Yeah, and especially like when you start looking at home solar and battery, you know, Tesla

31:24 and PGE have a partnership out in California where people with Tesla, battery walls can,

31:34 PGE will send them a notification, Hey, we're expecting peak demand this evening. We're going to charge your batteries at noon, and then we're going to draw electricity from moment pay for that

31:45 electricity. It's not super meaningful that program I have, I think it's like 20 megawatts or something like that. When I get up but still, it demonstrates, Oh, this is pretty cool when you can

31:55 see from a consumer side, if people have capacity and batteries, PGE can charge them up and then pay them for that electricity. Because like, your case, and like actually, I see this with some

32:12 of my energy friends and awesome bitch about it all the time when they get a notification from

32:21 Austin,

32:23 the power company or municipal, whatever, whatever it is, but anyways, let's send out a message and be like, Hey, experiencing peak demand, I need you to turn on your AC, cut off. or like,

32:34 that doesn't really sit well with Texans. But I'm like, if you paid them, if you told them that you'll pay them, that would go a long way. There's a threshold. If it was a one in 10 year event,

32:47 would it be acceptable? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like in Texas, dude, we're getting those like every fucking week now. Yeah, that's a different challenge. Yeah, I mean, like it's crazy, dude.

32:58 Like I never had these, this wasn't a thing growing up where we'd have just losing power, you know, brownouts, things of this nature. And now in Texas, I mean, this is a, this summer's been

33:09 good, but like, this summer in Houston's been very mild. Like last summer, summer before last. So obviously, you know, we've had Winter Storm, Yuri, which you probably look at as a Canadian

33:21 laugh at us 'cause it's like not that cold, but.

33:24 It wasn't that cold, but it was, it was the lack of energy like available at the time when people's lives were at risk.

33:34 To that point, I can understand. Yeah, it was cool for us. And so anyways, it's just, it's interesting dynamic and especially like as you look at

33:43 power generation that has come online in Texas, especially via wind. I mean, we've just put on a ton of wind capacity online and it's like the overlaid reliability on that same chart. It's like,

33:56 hey, how come we're putting, we've got more generation than ever, but reliability is going down. Why are electricity prices going up? And so I'm just coming back to like the efficiency thing.

34:05 It's like, at some point, we need all this stuff working together and being able to manage it better. So yeah, I could probably talk for fucking hours about that topic, but it's really hot

34:19 topping in Texas right now 'cause people are really starting to pay attention. I'm talking people outside of energy or starting to pay attention 'cause you start fucking with people's electricity

34:27 going off. Like we've taken that for granted as Americans and have an access to it. reliable electricity, and we're not used to it just being cut off multiple times. Not just reliable, but it's

34:40 thought of as a public good, right? And it should be affordable, readily available, and abundant. Yeah. And

34:49 to move away from that, you know, is it going to be well-digested by anybody? Yeah. And it shouldn't. It shouldn't be I mean, look, energy fuels prosperity, and we need electricity to advance

35:04 as a society and as a species. So people should be pissed off when it was electricity. So all right, Dan, if someone's listening to this and they work at an EMP and interested in what you guys are

35:18 doing, where can they find you? What's the website? wwwarchivespowercom. Cool. They

35:25 can find us on LinkedIn. Awesome like and

35:29 follow us and it can reach out. if they want to look at how they can manage their energy costs across the board. Yeah, so if you're at an EMP

35:41 or energy company listening to this and interested in Archis, we'll drop a link, Archispowercom, in the show notes and reach out to Dan and his team. Sounds like they're working on some really

35:46 cool stuff. So Dan, thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate you. That was a pleasure. We'll catch you guys on the next episode. Please share it with a friend.