Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

0:00 What is going on, Wildcat is welcome back to another episode. I think it's my first recording of 2024 from being honest. We're like two weeks and we have such a backlog. So do you guys have a good

0:10 holiday season? I had a great holiday season. I just, I just kind of stuck around, which is a typical for us and our family. But yeah, I'm just happy to stay in Houston and not have too much to

0:19 do. That's awesome. So we were sitting here with Phillip and Roxana from Envana. What is Envana? It's not Envana, but it's Envana. Yeah. Um, yeah, so Envana is a digital software solution for

0:33 emissions management. They were a SaaS company. Um, we actually started at Halliburton, it was incubated there. Um, did you work at Halliburton? Yes, I did. So I've, I've been in oil and gas

0:45 for over 20 years now, primarily at, um, service companies. Um, but for the last nine years, I was at Halliburton before I came over to Envana.

0:55 And there, my career has mostly been in technology development, software, but I started as a mechanical engineer. In 2019, I became director of stewardship and sustainability for Halliburton. Is

1:09 it stewardship and sustainability? Yeah, so that included. That's a new, that's an interesting title. What is. Yeah, I have to look at it too.

1:16 So stewardship really was around the regulatory and compliance aspects of environmental and chemicals. So it was. it's really a great role, I mean, to learn more about the overall aspects of

1:31 working at a company like a big company like Halliburton and all the things that go into it. I mean, nothing teaches you more about a company than going through the value chain, which you need to

1:41 do to understand the sustainability aspects, all the yesh aspects. So it was a new role for me and luckily I got to work with some very talented people who taught me a lot about sustainability. In

1:52 that role I was responsible for everything from. helping to set our targets. It was the first time we set reduction targets at Halberton to putting out our ASR, which is our annual and

2:02 sustainability report. So helping to get all the metrics on the ESG side, calculating everything,

2:10 helping to lead our steering committee on

2:14 sustainability topics. So it was a really great role. And one of the big things that was really obvious is that there's not really any good solutions in the market or there weren't at the time to

2:25 help us with getting a handle on our emissions. And emissions was such a hot topic in that period of time. So luckily, Landmark, which is the commercial software division at Halliburton, their

2:37 leadership team was very interested in getting into the sustainability space and incubating products in that area. So we got together and we started thinking about what kind of products would we,

2:49 would help oil and gas companies manage their emissions And that's really where Envana was born. So was this incubated, was like the idea and stuff purely from like it was from the business side and

3:01 with landmark? Did you guys interface with like Halliburton Labs at all in this or was this totally different? So Halliburton Labs was being born around the same time. So yeah, it was a little bit

3:10 independent at the time and Halliburton Labs was really focusing on companies that had hardware and things like that. Okay. Yeah. This was purely digital play. Okay, so you guys, you came with

3:21 this idea and then you all decided that this was gonna be a company from the beginning, it was just just a internal project of like, can we scratch our own itch? And then if we can, we go out and

3:33 we spin this off and we like commercialize it. So we wanted to treat this like a startup within Halliburton. So it was a little bit different. I don't think we'd really done anything like that

3:44 before. So from the beginning, there was an intention of treating it like it could be something that spun off And certainly, we took advantage of. having the use case from Halliburton, but we

3:56 also looked externally a lot because we wanted to make something that would be relevant to all oil and gas companies and not just for us. So it's not built just for a waffle service companies. This

4:06 is built for EP's as well. EP's and two companies. Yes. And honestly, we could expand beyond oil and gas. It's flexible enough for that. So what me through is this a, what is the main problem

4:19 that I'm solving? Is this, is this to understand the scope of your current emissions and to quantify that and put that into more of, like is the output like a regulatory style report of like, hey,

4:34 here's all of our emissions for all of Halliburton. And that's what it comes into. So intention is to help with all of that as well. But if you think about the emissions management space, you've

4:46 got everything from identification and quantification of your emissions, which is not as trivial as it may sound. And yes, we cover that aspect so you can help model your emissions or take in

4:58 measurement data to bring in your quantified emissions. But then from there, you have to think about reduction possibilities So scenario modeling, what happens if, how do you even set reduction

5:10 targets? How do you track that you're actually achieving them? How do you put together a roadmap for that? How do you manage different levels of maturity within your organization? So in some

5:20 places, you may have all the data you need. Most companies don't. But if you do have data, great. We can take that and help you turn that into an emissions quantification. If you don't have data

5:33 and you need to make assumptions, we can help you with that as well So we have different models and. in different parts of your business, you may be doing different things. And you can track all

5:41 of that and help get to the maturity level you wanna be at for modeling your missions and for planning how you're going to reduce or offset, eventually. So all the things around that wheel, whether

5:53 it's identification, quantification, reduction, which are those step changes, up to 25 maybe reduction elimination or carbon capture and storage or other types of credits to offset And then you're

6:06 back at the beginning, kind of going down this wheel. So kind of management tools and understanding how

6:14 you can actually make better decisions. People are starting to consider the carbon impact in addition to financial impact. And actually, the carbon impact now has the financial impact, which is

6:26 part of the story. So that's part of why people are caring about this now So really what we - Our goal is to help people make better decisions and then be in a position to track how those decisions

6:37 are playing out. An important thing around this too is the auditability and governance of it. You know, a lot of companies are making bold claims for, you know, I'm going to be net zero by 2030

6:48 or 2050 or I will have this target by 2030 or 20. It's totally arbitrary. It's just like, ah, it's pick a date and throw a dark day. And so when you're making business decisions on a day to day

6:58 week to meet week quarter to quarter basis, you need to know where you are on that journey based on all my emissions that I have, any sort of offsets or impacts that I have to know, okay, it's 20,

7:09 24 right now. I have this far to go until I'm net zero. Work, what do I need to do? What changes do I need to make? to reach that journey. How do you guys handle, let's assume, a new pack of

7:25 new regulations, like a new inflation reduction ad comes out and there's major implications for all of your customers. Yeah, no, that's a big thing that's happening right now. Right, so,

7:35 inflation reduction act, the new Quato B, Quato C rules, and then the revisions that are supposed to come out to EPA reporting, so part W, are all things that are top of mind of our customers

7:47 right now And what Roxanne has done with the product, and the team has done with the product, has made this incredibly modular. We don't just serve US clients. We serve clients internationally,

7:56 you know. Part of being a partner with Halliburton in this, and we can talk a little bit about how that works with us, but part of being a partner with Halliburton is we're serving customers in

8:06 Southeast Asia, and the North Sea, all in different regulatory or voluntary initiative environments. And so the way that the software is built is very modular for this. So we build out all the

8:18 admission profiles, all the admission sources that you could have. And then we can just simply change, are we reporting this for EPA? Are we reporting this for API, Compendium? Whatever that may

8:29 be, we can kind of seamlessly translate that because some companies in the same company may have to report to three or four different voluntary regulatory regimes. So having that modularity in it is

8:41 key to kind of having a scalable and governmental product So let's talk about, 'cause I think it differs widely from stateside versus internationally, 'cause I think you mentioned like it's kind of,

8:52 I think it's a lot of like voluntarily electing into controlling those things rather than a strict regulatory environment, as we may be seeing here in kind of the US, with let's just look at

9:04 companies here, 'cause you're on the business development side, right? So you're client facing, what is the number one thing that is currently top of mind with the companies that you're

9:13 interfacing with.

9:15 Yeah. So in the US, it is those three regulations that I talked about. The IRA, so the inflation reduction act came in 2022

9:25 and mandated some serious changes in how emissions are how leak detection repair happens. That's through Quato B and Quato C, and then how emissions are reported, which is subpart W. So the IRA

9:35 bill came in and said, Hey, EPA, you have to make changes to these rules. So the first that actually came into law was through Quato B and Quato C. So previously, what oil and gas companies were

9:47 having to do through Quato A, which came in to effect about 2026 is, Hey, twice a year, any site that had, um, that was built after 2016, you had to shoot that with an OGI camera twice a year,

9:59 find and fix those leaks. Pretty simple. Um, Quato B now states, okay, now any sites built after 2022, you have to shoot those four times a year, but then it added some key things into there So

10:12 it added the super emitter rule. So now third parties such as the third party NGOs like the EDF, the EPA, et cetera, are allowed to find and report emissions over 100 kilograms an hour, so

10:27 roughly 75 MCF a day. So if those are seen by a third party, those can be reported to the EPA, which then affects your subpart W submission, which now affects the new methane tax coming from the

10:40 IRA. So is that an effect or is that coming down the pipe? So the methane tax is in effect. Okay. Starting next, I guess we're in 2024 now, so starting in 2024 and it scales each subsequent year

10:53 going to 2027. Let's expand upon that. Yeah. So yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. So again, going back to the three rules, how they all kind of affect the methane tax. So the IRA

11:04 basically said there's a methane tax now. Anything that which the EPA defines the facility, not how you and I would kind of think of facility, a facility is like a sub basin or a grouping of

11:16 facilities or someone's activity in the Permian Basin or Midland Basin. Any ton of CO2 above, I believe it's 25, 000 megatons of CO2 emitted is now subject to a fine. So starting this year,

11:33 it's900 per ton. I believe next year it escalates to1, 200 per ton for a couple of years. Then after 2027, it's1, 500 per ton. And so let's contextualize that. What does that mean with like an

11:47 average independent operator? We've talked to some clients, an average independent operator, it's millions of dollars. Yeah. It's millions of dollars. And now, so this is based off of now, the

11:56 current subpart W rules, which the new subpart W rules come into effect, which subpart W is what operators use to report in their emissions, are expected to increase emissions, cat reported by one

12:09 and a half to two times. So you can imagine, not only do the fees go up, but the reporting is coming more stringent, which needed to happen. You know, it's been pretty well scientifically proven

12:20 that what is being reported now in subpart W is just lower than what's actually happening, what's actually seeing out there. So they added some new emission factors into the subpart W proposal.

12:33 They're adding in outside leak events. So if you have a leak and you have data on that and that's captured, you have to report that now And all sorts of other more data-driven metrics to refine

12:46 what's reported. Now with the new supermitter rule coming in, if somebody sees a leak that you've had, that affects what's being reported on your subpart W report now. So let's say EDF has a

13:01 satellite that sees 100 kilogram an hour emission on someone's site. So now they have to report that based on the best data they have. So if they're only seeing that site quarterly. Um, they now

13:15 have to go back to the last, um, scan, extrapolate that, um, hundred kilograms an hour and report that on their subpart W report, which affects their methane tax. So this, this has very huge

13:29 implications for operators, um, and potentially really large fees that they're gonna have to pay. So if you don't have a handle of everything that's happening on your emissions front, um, there's,

13:39 there's a lot of fines and fees in the U S that you have to pay So you said one of the, one of the comments that you made was that what is currently kind of being reported is probably not accurate

13:50 with what's actually, and is that due to measurement? Is it like a lack of technology? Is that lack of operators implementing the technology? Like why does that exist? Yeah. So typically in the

14:02 past, methane emissions were reported with a straight emissions factor. So there were, I think there was some analysis done at one point and they just said, you can X emissions per day for this

14:15 piece of equipment. And if you have 10 of those, then you multiply by 10 in the number of days. So every piece of equipment had an emissions factor. Yes. New maddies and easy math. Separators,

14:25 and that's still part of the case, which is in the new subpart W revisions. But those factors have now been changed in some cases. Some cases you're required to use what they call data-driven or

14:37 engineered factors, where you actually have to use real data from your site to create that factor And then now adding in leaks as well too. You have to take in the data from leaks, which that's

14:47 more directly measured data. Okay. So there is no, so for you guys, there is no hardware component to this. You're gonna be plugging into either existing sensors or sensors that they're bringing

14:59 in, or data that is talking to some sort of like detection. Or operational data. Yeah, that's great. I mean, part of the challenge is that detection technology isn't necessarily great at

15:10 quantification today. And generally, they're measuring concentration, which doesn't give you a quantity of methane that's actually been leaked. There's no flow rates or anything like that that

15:22 would make it easier to quantify. So that makes it, it's a big data science exercise to try and figure out how much methane you actually leaked. So that's where a lot of the challenge comes in. So

15:34 when you're talking to a company and you're in this process of evaluation, or most of the companies that you're talking to, do you know, they already have a lot of the sensors and do they already

15:44 have like a grasp on the detection side, or is it like, hey, we need to do this and you're like, well, how are we going to do it and then you have to go back and get all the sensors. Yeah,

15:52 great question. So again, kind of going back to US versus international to be kind of span across all that. US has had a pretty good handle on the sensor, on the sensors flyovers, satellites,

16:02 everything in that and companies generally use who they like when it comes to there And our ideas, you know, to be fairly agnostic with that. um, internationally, we're seeing more people coming

16:12 to us kind of saying, you know, hey, help us out and help us figure this out. You know, we don't really know what to use, what's going on. We signed up for this voluntary initiative and we have

16:21 this regulation coming down the pipe. Please help us out with this. And, and that's where we're kind of interfacing a little more at that. But going back to, to both customers, it comes down to,

16:32 it's just a lot of data that you have to put into one spot and connect into, whether it be the sensors, the operational data, the data that you'd have in things such as well-view or your production

16:43 system that all kind of add up to the total numbers. And when we add a model, we're not just looking at methane. We've taken data from drilling activity, from cementing, from completion's

16:56 activity. We're really focused on providing an entire picture of CO2, not just methane. Methane has talked about a lot because it is a big problem And it is. the one that the industry thinks that

17:10 we can fix the easiest, which I agree. But there's other things that add up into your CO2. How do you, is it, once again, is it the emissions factor with those types of activities? Like how do

17:20 you quantify those things? Well, that's the trick, right? So there's any number of ways you could do it. So say you know exactly how much fuel was used and it's an activity that combusts fuel.

17:32 You can use that, of course, that's great if you have it, especially if you have it by which piece of equipment did it and what it was for and why it was used. If you don't have that, then you

17:43 can use things like, well, how long was the equipment running and you could make some assumptions. So there's a bunch of different ways to model and again, it depends on what level of data the

17:53 company has access to and how they're tracking it. Because most companies weren't tracking all this data for the purpose of emissions, right? They might have the data for other reasons. Maybe they

18:01 wanted to improve the reliability equipment so they were tracking things for that reason.

18:08 Really, what we're trying to do is help companies use the data they have to model the missions the best way they can and to also give them a view into what the options are if they wanted to change

18:18 that or improve that. By doing this, we can help a company understand how their specific business operations impact their missions. Instead of just this top-down view of you have this total number,

18:32 you can say, Oh, well, in this area doing these things, this is what we produce That lets you really understand where you can make the most impact with reductions, where the easiest impacts are,

18:45 where the hardest ones are, and those kinds of things. Plus, it makes it a lot simpler

18:53 transferring data between different departments. A lot of times there's a small, tiny group that's trying to calculate emissions and they're trying to get data from all these different places and

19:03 different departments, different areas and It's all Excel spreadsheets, and again, the data has to be transformed so many different ways. So by doing direct integration and having that passed

19:17 through these integrations and doing the modeling centrally on our side in a way that's governed by a sustainability team, it keeps the calculations consistent. It keeps people from having to email

19:31 or dump the data, put it through some calculation and Excel and then pass it Keeps everything flowing a lot more neatly and with less error. Yeah, on that note, who really quickly - who are the

19:44 end users, like who are the people actually logging into the platform in a company? Yeah, so typically it's sustainability teams, the SMEs that are keeping watch over their particular areas. It's

19:56 management looking at dashboards. So a lot of times the folks that in the past had to provide all this data to those teams that

20:07 They don't necessarily need to do that anymore because it's all handled through automation. But say there's a vertical within the company and they've been set a target. You know, they can now track

20:17 that and see how they're doing in their particular area. So it kind of runs the gamut depending on the company and how they've chosen to use the system. But typically it's people who are trying to

20:28 see, okay, how are we doing? What are, you know, where are we seeing spikes or those kind of challenges? Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you out What I like to say is with someone with an

20:36 upstream background, what I like seeing too, is we see more and more of the operations teams using it. Because they're getting mandates from the sustainability side saying, these are the targets

20:45 we have to make, but we're not gonna tell you how to make them. You know, you run your operation to do it. So again, having the gambit of drilling all the way through completion production,

20:56 those teams can see where they're impacting that number the most and make the decisions themselves on how to do it. Part of one of the great things about this, software being built in one of the

21:05 larger service companies in the world, is that they're able, we're able to think through every single piece when we built the software that can contribute to that. So that could be as simple as a

21:16 drilling engineer changing out their mud system, changing out their cement to a lower scope three cement all the way to the procurement teams finding companies that have lower emissions, 'cause that

21:30 directly impacts their scope three emissions So there's a lot of different ways that this gets used throughout the company. And it's exciting now starting to see the operations team start to use it.

21:41 So, okay, so you guys come in, you plug into the existing sensors and now you're pulling in all this information.

21:50 Like you said, the running scenarios on, kind of

21:53 if we change this or if we don't change this, here's kind of what we're looking at. And does that run into the regulations that we just talked about and then spit out if you don't do these things,

22:03 now you're gonna pay5 million. So when we talk about the regulation, I'm just trying to visualize it. So going back to those regulations, the way this looks like for someone in the US having to

22:13 deal with these regulations, typically all methane mostly comes down to the production team or the facilities design team. So yeah, an instance of scenario model for that, a fairly easy instance

22:25 is we're able to see, okay, I have this many automatic valves If I spend this much money to place my automatic valves, so you've seen companies like EQT and others - 25 million to place the money

22:37 valves, yeah. Yeah, so, but you can actually see directly in our software, if I do that, how does this affect not only my bottom line, but how does it affect my CO2E now? Yeah. So what

22:48 changes do I need to make next to affect that? You know, if it's flaring, for instance, flaring's a big part of a lot of our customers, CO2E. We can dive in and drill down, Where am I flaring

22:59 the most? um, all the way down to the asset level and, you know, if I need to make a capital investment, so that I'm flaring less, how does that affect my CO2 E? So it's every part of the

23:09 operation that, that we allow someone to, to dive into, to, to determine how does this affect my total company scope, one scope, two scope, three emissions. And, um, you know, how do my

23:21 changes impacted? So on the, you just mean, we think of this, I'm kind of curious if y'all interface with this or well, somebody who's just got like a, like just tons of, uh, stranded gas and

23:32 they're flaring. Do y'all interface with any of these companies that are doing Bitcoin mining or does that come up in these conversations? You know, that hasn't come up in any of our conversations

23:42 yet. Um, I mean, that's something we'd absolutely love to explore though. I mean, because again, we, we want to be able to hand our customer solutions and yeah, part of our board's vision and

23:53 in our, our company's vision of Envana is to be a total carbon solution. So, um, A big way that we're going to do this and grow this is through partnerships with other companies such as that. So

24:06 let's talk more about that after we get off the podcast. Yeah, let's do it. Absolutely. Yeah, I'd love to. I also handle partnerships with the company. But it's really, as

24:16 Roxanna stated, we've only really been a company since January.

24:23 I started last January. I started in June in for a while I was just Roxanna and another one of our employees, Emily Rees, who was running the show. And we've grown from two employees all the way

24:35 to, I think, rep 20 now. Almost, I think. And continuing to grow. And that's not including the contract employees that we have. So,

24:43 Halliburton and our private equity partner have made very serious commitments to see us grow and see this be a powerhouse in emissions management And we've been able to hire some great folks to the

24:55 team to help grow that. We have an awesome sales force. a very stellar product management staff underneath Roxana and an operations team as well that, and we're hiring too. We're hiring, please,

25:08 yeah, if you're interested. Yeah, you're in any positions off top of your head, we can just spit them out. So I'm hiring on the dev team, the data science team, we're hiring some SMEs on the

25:18 GHG side all over, and wait, we've got, yeah. Developers front and back in, looking to grow that staff and support I'll be hiring an analyst for my team later this year. I mean, it's, we're

25:32 committed to grow and help tackle this problem globally. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so one of the things that I'm curious about is how do you either interface with or do you or not? There are these

25:44 groups out there that are like this like certification on how well you have a grip on your emissions, like MIQs and the project canaries. Does y'all stuff go into any sort of like any of that or any

25:57 like rating systems or? Yeah, that's a great question. And that's something we've been thinking a lot about as a company, you know, where do we fit in the space? Because in

26:09 the whole emissions management space, even still, it's a very big carrot and stick with a lot of companies, you know,

26:16 saving money or spending money to put in an emission software just still isn't as fun as drilling in you well Probably anything is as fun as drilling in you well. So yeah, not much is. So how are

26:30 you providing incentives to have this data because it is so important and so critical to these companies right now? And I think differentiated gas is an interesting space for that. And we're still

26:41 thinking through this, but our philosophy around that is, we just wanna help enable it. We don't ever plan to come in and tell people what differentiated gas is. We'll leave that to the government.

26:52 it's controversial. It's very controversial depending on who you talk to. Yeah, we don't really feel like that's our space, but if we have clients that want to use it, we're more than able to

27:03 produce the data that's required to enable it. And to provide it to auditors or whoever else like part of what we're building into the product is that transparency and auditability and that ability

27:14 to easily see how we're these quantified and where did the data come from so that we can enable any kind of certification or audit or assurance that a customer may want to have. Yeah, the critiques,

27:29 and I don't know if y'all have heard this or not, but I have the critiques of things like that where it's third party certifications is that it's a goalpost that continually moves. Exactly. And

27:39 even if it's like, well, we spent all this money, we play this game, we get an A rating, and then all of a sudden, five months later, we're at a D minus, and it's like, we got to spend

27:46 another25 million to get by2 million. Exactly. Well, it's really just for my observation is that in these kind of more marketplace scenarios, the market's just really not mature enough where if I

27:58 just have a certificate thrown on a marketplace that will garner a good premium for it. Where you're seeing it be most successful in kind of these bilateral agreements where a producer agrees with

28:07 end user that will provide you differentiated gas for X price. And that's where I see it. I have seen it work the most. So that's why we simply, we want to just be facilitators of it. Are people

28:17 selling differentiated gases that like, is there a significant traction in the market to say that that's a thing and not just a thing? No, it's definitely a thing. It's definitely a thing. People

28:17 are selling differentiated gas

28:30 for five to 12 cent premiums is typically what I hear. The problem still is that it's a bit of the Wild West. And the Biden administration has been pretty clear that they're not gonna make rules for

28:40 differentiated gas because they tend to think that that encourages more differentiated gas, which that side of the aisle I think is just not wanting to encourage natural gas production anyway, but

28:51 what is a fact and what is true is that the Department of Falsal Energy is working with a group of international stakeholders now to determine globally what is differentiated gas, what are the

29:03 metrics for it, and I think there is a standard that's being worked towards globally, because if you think about it, it makes a ton of sense. It's a very kind of market-driven capitalist approach

29:13 to, again, have that carrot to encourage people to - How would you define that today, or how is the market defining differentiated gas today? Let's just say it states that - Yeah. I

29:25 may go down a little bit of rabbit hole, so I apologize. So if I'm an end user, so let's say I'm an automaker, and I buy natural gas to power my plant. That natural gas that I buy is a Scope 3

29:42 emissions - Sorry, the emissions that were produced to make that natural gas that gets to my plant was a Scope 3 emission for me. And typically what people use to calculate that now is there's a

29:53 couple of different standards. I believe there's a Greek standard and then there's the UK defra standard that basically just assumes, okay, every MMBTU of gas that you buy, think it's around like

30:05 11 kilograms of methane were produced from it, don't quote me on it, but around that. So differentiated gas, you're able to prove to that end user now, this is what actually were the CO2

30:17 emissions or the methane emissions produced from that, which typically in most cases is much lower than that standard. So now the end user can have a lower scope through emission by buying this. I

30:29 can actually prove, auditably, this is what the

30:34 emissions were from this gas. It's like organic gas. Organic gas. Exactly. But it's a way for, typically it's those end users that have the pressure right now for Scope 3 emissions. Yeah. And

30:47 it's a way for them to lower the Scope 3 emissions without having to pay for offsets or anything like that. So let's talk about that. Like with the offsetscarbon credits, how does that play into

30:56 the platform for clients? Yeah, so the idea is if you have set some goals and you need to reduce and you're never gonna get to zero if you're actually doing things unless you manage to completely

30:56 just go renewable and your products you're using are somehow also zero mission. So most companies are gonna have to do some kind of offset or start doing

31:26 carbon capture and storage and those kinds of things. So we wanna help companies track that and plan for it work in their bottom line. Isn't the offset market still very much the wild, wild west

31:40 from whatever is that like it's sketchy. Like the early days of the internet to where you're paying all this money for these offsets and essentially you're getting like a PDF in your email saying,

31:50 yeah, you bought these offsets. Like there is no database built on blockchain that is like a ledger. You can see like what's what or if it's legit or certified. There are companies doing

32:01 blockchain carbon crap But again, it is the Wild West. And that's why we again don't want to be claiming that something is a valid credit or not, right? But if a company has determined internally

32:15 that this is a valid credit and they want to use this, then we will help them track that and - Yeah, maybe you'll know the answer to this. How are offsets created? There's a multitude of ways that

32:28 offsets are created. Okay, let's go through a few examples. 'Cause now I'm curious, 'cause I'm like, what if I was just like, and I'm just selling offsets on the internet? Yeah, and so how do

32:36 you know that it is what it is? There are, what are similar to accounting standards for offset creation. So the American carbon registries probably is the most prominent one that I know of, that

32:49 basically they set just like you have gap standards for your books, they set standards for carbon accounting. So you'll hear things referred to as nature-based offsets And again, I'm no expert in

32:60 the space, but nature-based offsets are kind of, hey, we'll plant trees to offset that. And there's a way that that has calculated and tracked and that the American carbon registry puts forward.

33:11 Where the industry, oil and gas industry has really kind of decided they're going to make their ground and offsets through sequestration. So carbon capture, storage, which makes it a ton of sense.

33:23 I mean, our industry has a history through CO2 floods. of putting CO2 back in there for a long time and there's plenty of great depleted reservoirs out there too that can hold CO2 and there's a lot

33:35 of nuances to it but I think that's where you're going to see at least our industry lean the most towards the offset market is through sequestration and back to the product and how that all fits in is

33:48 that if we're giving a company a picture of their entire emissions scope 1, scope 2, scope 3,

33:57 part of our product is going to be bringing in that data from however they're doing it to because what we're doing now is showing everything how it adds up and then that's that's the subtraction to

34:07 get you to whatever your goal you're going towards. So essentially you get there and it's like you're balancing this out it's like hey here's here's how many you need and yeah and so. is that

34:19 integrated into the platform and they go outside and then they just buy those and then they balance it out and say, Hey, we got as close to zero as possible. These are goals one day. Yeah, this

34:30 is all, that's all the roadmap right now, but. Yeah. You know what should be the biggest offset is whales. Somebody needs to get back and what, whales are like equal to like, I think it's like

34:38 700, 000 trees or something. I've never known that. Yeah, Google it. It's crazy. We talk about it here all the time. That's awesome Yeah, 'cause we killed the whale population like, 100 years

34:49 ago, 200 years ago and so. Bring whaling back, bring like whale breeding back. Like you can just let all these whales free because it's like good on a long rabbit hole on this, but whales are

35:00 where it's at when it comes to offset. So I'm surprised we haven't seen some like venture-packed billion dollar startup that's just like, yeah, we're just whale breeding and start selling offsets.

35:10 We may have to. Digital walk hater's whaling Any of -

35:15 Disroying gas partners, partners, we'll bring that into Ivana and they can have that offset it. That's right. Hey, I think this is a great idea. Anything, one question, there's a little bit of

35:26 a curveball question, but what would y'all say is the Ivana difference? And I mean that by, there's a lot of people entering the space, right? A lot of people that are entering the space and

35:38 every aspect of the life cycle of the problem that we're solving here, what is y'all's differentiating factor in the market? Definitely, and I'll answer this and then I'll let Roxanna have her

35:49 answer too, but for someone who didn't build this product like Roxanna did and you know, has spent my career in oil and gas, I think for me, the biggest difference that I've seen at Ivana is we're

36:03 an oil and gas product made by the oil and gas industry. We're built with an alibert and leveraging their 100 plus years of experience And rightfully so, Halliburton made the decision. Hey, in

36:16 order for this thing to flourish, we need to pull this out of this large company and make its own thing. So, Halliburton still owns half the company. The other half of the company is owned by a

36:25 private equity company called Sigler Gough out of New York, a large private equity company with a great energy practice, and the key differentiation is that we are leveraging heavily that oil and

36:37 gas experience to build this product. You know, we're on a company out of Silicon Valley that's looking kind of for an opportunistic way to enter into a lucrative industry. We're building this on

36:49 the back of hundreds of years of experience, a hundred years of experience in oil and gas, and I think that's key when you build these products is to be able to know the customer experience, its

36:59 trust, and it's staying power, knowing that we're going to be here. And one of the things that amazed me, too, just from the not so much how we're differentiating to the market, but

37:10 differentiating really. to other products is that we're able to, we partner with Halbert and we're with the leverage that presents globally, many startups can't talk to some of the largest

37:21 companies throughout the world. And we had that ability to with our partnership. So, but outside of that, I think how Roxanna has built the product to be just so incredibly modular, to plug and

37:36 play in any sort of regulatory scenario, any sort of region with across drilling completions and production all the way through PA,

37:45 is a real key difference maker to this project. We're not just a methane focused product. We focus on the entire CO2 experience. All right, first off, I did not build this product by myself. I

37:55 just wanna say that. Pretty much over here, just hacking away a little more and sucker burn. Yeah, that's a very talented team of people that help out with this and build it. Yeah, so I agree

38:07 with everything you just said. Being part of oil and gas is a really big part of this. our approach is that we're not just targeting one type of user within an EP company or a services company,

38:20 we're trying to help bring all the different departments together, right? So the sustainability team, the drilling team, the operations production upstream downstream teams, we wanna bring them

38:34 all together and provide a platform that they can all use where I think some of these other products are very niche focusing on just production or just drilling or just methane or just, you know. So

38:46 we wanna really provide a platform where the sustainability team feels like they have control and governance over how things are being done. But then all the other teams can contribute data either

38:57 through their software or databases or through their people. and then also see how things are going across the company. And our ability to operationalize the understanding of emissions and what I

39:08 mean by that is that we can tie it back to activities. Whatever granular level is really going to help make a difference when people are trying to make decisions and track and see what's going on. I

39:20 love it. Those are great answers. I was curious what the answer was gonna be. That's good now. Yeah. Well, awesome guys. Where can people find you guys? Somebody wants to reach out. They're

39:30 listening. They're like, I need to see invana. Yeah. We have a website at wwwinvanacom. So feel free to do that. You can reach us on

39:42 LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn, Phillip's on LinkedIn. Happy to chat. And like I said, we're hiring. So please reach out. Do you have a profile on CaliPro yet? We don't, but - What made that

39:50 happen? Let's do it. So your CaliPro subscriber, you can go in there, check them out as well. We'll get your jobs listed on Cali as well. What made that happen? Awesome I'll show some new

39:59 people some top talent. We'd love that. This has been great, guys. Yeah, thanks for coming in. Yeah, thanks for having us here today. I guys, take two seconds, share this with all your

40:08 friends, and we'll catch you on the next episode.