Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

0:00 What's going on, while I was walking back to another episode, other willing, yes, or as podcast, we have none of them. Peter Snow with petro vibe here in the studio down from Dallas. What's up,

0:09 man? Now, the man glad to be here. I love it. Took the Von Lane bus to get here and it's normally awesome. Today it was a challenge the first time I've I've written that bus. Probably have a

0:22 have a dozen times in the last few months and probably 20 sometimes in the last five years. And this is the first time they've ever been late They always leave right on the button. And today we were

0:33 an hour and 15 minutes late. But it's like the executive charters. Yeah, like the nice like a recliner seats and stuff. Yeah, it's not the dog or the Greyhound. Yeah, people would. Yeah, it's

0:43 like cushy. Your timeline is similar to flying, except for you don't have to go through all the security hassle. It's it's way better. And you get great service. I highly recommend it for

0:55 whatever that's worth. I've never done it for you You ever done JSX?

0:60 I have actually. I love you. They just put Starlink on all their planes. Oh, did they really? So you can sit there and FaceTime on them. No way. I'm telling you, it's the best. So Starlink

1:08 gives you the next level of internet. I did not know. Yeah. I have done JSX, it's like that. Only it's on the ground. And when you're going to Houston, why not? I mean, it's three hours, 45

1:19 minutes. Great, I highly recommend it, but JSX, awesome. I'll have to check it out. You should, you should. Petrovive, what do you guys do over there? Petrovive, so, well, we're drilling

1:28 wells Or we're starting to, anyway, but Petrovive is,

1:32 it's an oil and gas development company, but I like to think of it as fuel for the grid. You know, everybody's all hopped up on electric today. And so, when I think about it, I think about the

1:44 things we're doing. You know, Teslas don't run themselves. They're storage, not source. We're in the business of source. So, we're just, we got a project in South Texas and a great team and.

1:59 It's, it's pretty awesome.

2:02 We're, we just got started a few months ago and already been raising capital and we're, we're excited about this particular project. It's got several million dollars already sunk into science. So

2:13 it's good. Are you guys going to operate these walls? Yes. Yeah, we're an operator. So we actually, we got a license and everything. So we've got a, we got our first permit that happened

2:23 yesterday. So we're pretty excited about that I don't know, permitting may not be that exciting for some folks. But for us, we were, at least as a group. I mean, my team's got oodles of

2:34 experience. My 74 is geologist years old when he probably could, he used to run marathons and he still fits. So he's amazing, has an unbelievable track record and is just super smart. He's also a

2:49 visionary, which makes for an interesting combination. But my other team, I've got a petroleum engineer When he started his career, he was a rough neck. And he had, he told me a story. I was

3:00 like, dude, tell me your craziest story. So he told me this story about one time when he was working on an ocean platform, he was trying to get hooked into the ladder up the platform. And

3:14 fortunately he got hooked on, but when he stepped off of the boat to get onto the ladder, he slipped and plummeted into the ocean. And it was really rough seas So the fact that he didn't get

3:26 crushed was a miracle, but he chuckles, he's 34 years old. So I don't know if he's still like missing a few screws or something at that age, but that's our FPA guy. So he does all of our -

3:38 There's more than more terrifying in the ocean. I do, I mean - Especially being that far out. Well, and on a, when it's rough, and I mean, it's not like, yeah. I don't know, he's kind of a

3:50 mad scientist. But anyway, he's a petroleum engineer by training by

3:55 education, but he. went to work for PE firm and learned how to do FPA. And he's awesome. Like, it's a superpower. So anyway, he's pretty excited about what's going on at Petrovive, but I love

4:07 that guy. So, and then our Blaine, our COO, he's amazing. He's drilled somewhere around north of 400 wells himself, but he's supervised north of 10, 000 wells. And I mean, he's kind of done

4:23 it all. He's roughly my age, 30 years in the industry and just done a lot of stuff, but he's really good at scale, which is, and I think what's better for us as a team, since I get to talk about

4:37 them, I love these guys. I mean, they're just salt to the earth, but what's really cool about us is all the fit. We were just talking about it. We just had lunch, and the four of us are so

4:48 different. And I can't forget about Ryan, my partner up in Dallas who's uh, loves the oil business, but if you look at all four of us, we all have like unique skill sets, but we like each

4:58 other's people and we're very different. And we just get along and we get along better the further we go. And if anybody knows anything about the oil business, which obviously you do. And so a lot

5:10 of people probably listening, but, uh, it can stress relationships. So we, we've already had a lot of stress and business in general, can stress relationships and then the waffle makes it even

5:20 tougher Exactly. Well, and then layer into that fundraising. So it's, uh, it's been complex, but I don't know. Love the guys. They seem to love each other and it's going good. It's going good.

5:32 So we're going to let's talk about it. So what's your background? So probably the simplest way to look at it is I'm a business fixer. Um, you know, I've been in some form of, of, uh, you know,

5:43 in the old days, sales and marketing at some level, that kind of turned evolved into a brand, uh, expert and then it. morphed into management consulting. And so that's actually how I got

5:57 involved in the oil business was as a business fixer. And so I like solving problems. The bigger and hairier, probably the more interesting to me have a high tolerance for risk, which is maybe why

6:12 I like

6:14 the oil business. My wife, however, does not have that same high tolerance for risk, but she's been learning since we've been married almost 26 years So she's an incredible woman. I would have

6:25 given up on me a few more times if I were in her shoes, but she's an incredible person. But yeah, the story is, is I just have, I like fixing problems or creating things. And you have to create

6:40 a lot when you're fixing, but the difference is when you're fixing, you're always under duress. Now, as I've been creating just for the, you know, a clean slate, there's a different kind of

6:53 duress. So you're always under duress. That's really the story. But the duress when you're fixing is you're forced to make decisions much more quickly with imperfect information, far less perfect

7:05 information. And I will say the more I go through this creation stage of petrovive,

7:15 the more I find similarity to fixing because a lot of the conditions are fairly similar. So why out of all the problems to solve, why be an operator? Like I mean, that's just where you're gonna

7:29 have asking to get kicked in the nuts every day. Yeah, that's probably fair. I, maybe part of it is I don't have 30 years of operating experience. That's what those other guys I just talked about

7:41 are for. So

7:44 I think the key for me is I've spent a career Advising people. helping them solve their problems as a function of solving the problem. And

7:56 it was kind of a amalgamation of things. I liked the idea of being able to create something tangible. I believe that's how God made me. I'm designed for tangibility, and yet I picked a career path

8:11 that largely was void of that, or I was helping others do their tangible things. And so I think that was one of the things, like I said, I love risk. And I say I love risk. I like the challenge

8:24 of it. I don't like failing anymore than anybody else, but I'm pretty resilient. And I don't take that as a.

8:32 It's not one of those things where I say, Okay, I'm resilient. So I just accept that. I think I just observing myself objectively. I am resilient. It's not something I take pride in because I

8:43 don't know how to. It's more of just, again, how God made me. So I like Um. I like the tangibility of it and there's nothing more American and we need some patriotism around here. I mean, the

8:55 country needs to be able to rally around some things that are

9:00 good for everybody and I know there's going to be people out there who think this isn't good. That's certainly their entire opinion. But for me, those were really the reasons. And if I dug in a

9:11 little bit deeper, I would say I love the people, not all the people There's bad apples in every bunch, right? But this industry is full of a lot of really just simple,

9:25 I guess that's not the right word, simple to like, straightforward, I'd say good folks. At least that's been my experience. Again, I've met some that I'd like to leave behind, but you're going

9:38 to do that no matter what you do. So I also, and this is kind of a little bit of a sidetrack here, but one of the things like about this industry, I'm kind of a student of history. And so you

9:51 think about, let's zoom out for a second. You think about business in general, right? There's some really interesting success stories and cautionary tales. So, and a lot of this comes from just,

10:03 you know, being curious and interested in other things. But think about like IBM, great success story when you look at such a long period of history because IBM has reinvented itself multiple times

10:17 and certainly they've had their struggles. But it's funny when I used to do workshops, I would talk about IBM and how they were, I would just ask, is anybody in the room? 'Cause I'm dealing with

10:27 a bunch of millennials in some of those cases. But I would ask, do you know what IBM stands for? And they would often most of the time not know because if you're not 50 or 40 something plus, You

10:42 just don't know. You're kind of familiar with IBM as a brand, but you don't really know what it stands for because they haven't been using their actual, you know, it's international business

10:49 machines. Well, they don't, they're not selling hardware forever. I mean, they're, they're a software consulting and AI company and have been for some time, you know, Watson, that was their

10:59 big brand for the last 15 years they were out in front of the AI before anybody Anyway, but I say all that to say, you know, that's a great success story. And I'm going somewhere with this time

11:09 back to the oil industry, but

11:13 take blockbuster, you know, cautionary tale right I mean they had the tiger by the tail Netflix was was a, an opportunity they actually had an opportunity when they were at their peak to acquire

11:26 Netflix and they said no this whole you know DVD rental thing isn't really going to pan out. I mean we can all sit and laugh right right now and I think there's one blockbuster left it's obviously

11:37 not a corporate it's a local brand I want to say it's in Alaska. But anyway, I mean, Blockbuster was on every corner when I was in my 20s and 30s, you couldn't go anywhere without finding a

11:47 Blockbuster and everyone remembers the late fees, which I think was part of what killed their brand and why I would say you could argue that the late fees were a spur in the saddle of technology

11:59 advancing quicker. And that's because their late fee policy was ridiculous and they were a behemoth. But anyway, they're a dead company. They're a dead brand And the reason why is because they

12:08 couldn't look forward and innovate as a company. Now, you come back to, those are company stories, but you come back to industry, which maybe the railroad is more relevant and it's demise.

12:21 But

12:24 look at the oil industry. I mean, the discipline that the industry has been able to accomplish in the last, let's say 10 years, it's been going on longer, I think. But you look at particularly

12:36 in the last 10 years, years, maybe in the last seven years. It's, it's amazing. they as an industry, we as an industry have developed this discipline muscle in the midst of and I think in large

12:48 part to the ESG movement and the climate warriors and, you know, I mean, look, every person on the planet believes that we should, you know, take care of our climate, but there's a lot of

13:00 misinformation, particularly on the other side and just propaganda and pandering and to think we're going to not rely on petroleum products and any, like certainly not my lifetime, but even in the

13:14 next 50 years, does that mean we don't develop? Sure, we need to develop. I mean, we need alternatives because we don't have enough even oil and gas to meet the demand that's required for energy

13:24 of this exploding population. And so when I think about all that stuff, I think about just how, I don't know what a great story it is to see how the industry has kept rig count. as an example, a

13:36 great, like mid-level, if you think about KPIage for the industry, it's a really good mid-level indicator of

13:46 what used to be growth, but really isn't necessarily anymore, because RID count has been generally flat for years, yet you've seen us explode in production. Why is that? Discipline, technology,

13:57 those are great stories. And all companies aren't, they're not going boom and bust like they used to because they're more disciplined and they're not going to sit there and pander to governments and

14:09 all the things that go on. They're actually going to listen to the business fundamentals of supply and demand. They're going to listen to the need to generate profit, not just grow needlessly. And

14:19 so it's not the wild lesson anymore. It's actually a brave new world, I think for oil and gas, which is one of the reasons I'll tie back to your original question that I want to be in this business

14:30 because I think there's no better time for us to be in this business when it's actually the industry trying really hard to act like a successful handful of businesses. What's the business model that

14:41 you guys are following? You're trying to go out and obviously you're going to punch a whole bunch of holes in the ground. So

14:47 you can essentially do it as a drill co or you're going to go acquire a new PDP or you're going to raise private equity, you're raising family office cash, walk me through. What's the vision and

14:57 how are you guys planning on getting there? So

15:01 I'll start with the underlying mission which sort of it ties back to this a couple of things. One is my personal inspiration and what gets me up out of the bed every morning and what I love. So

15:15 that's one thing. And then the second thing is really the tie into what I think will the opportunity within the industry as it sits right now And so, um,

15:28 my, my personal, um, How I'm wired, I mean, is this, try to keep this,

15:38 like, bundled together, right? I'm a unapologetic disciple of Jesus, so

15:46 that's who I follow. Like, if you're asking, you know, who would you want to meet if it's Jesus? So that's where I draw my inspiration. I study Scripture, I love it I need Jesus because I'm a

15:58 sinner, and without Him I would fall short of God's perfect plan. And I need that grace because I am imperfect, and I'm still learning, right? So even though I'm on the other side of what is

16:11 salvation through grace by faith is important. It's important for me to continue to grow and learn in Him And one of the ways to do that is I'm a provider, I'm a doer, I'm a worker And so Petrovive

16:28 was in large part started because I have those needs to go do that in a context that honors him as a steward. So I view the world, anything that I have is his, anything anybody has is his and I'm a

16:42 steward. So I have a period of time in which I am required to manage this. And I didn't always think this way. Even when I, what you call professed to be a born-again believer when I was 13 years

16:54 old and there's been a faith journey in growing in that, in my faith in Christ. But there's a lot of figuring out in that. And when I really came down to it, this idea of stewardship was lost on

17:06 me. And so I'm bringing up that word stewardship because it's really important that we understand that when we're pooling resources as an operator, fundraising, doing all the things that we're

17:18 doing, bringing people together to do work, like David, he's our

17:26 dozer operator. in our project there near Halitzville. The guy is 70 years old. We're giving him an opportunity to work. We're stewarding this opportunity. We need to make sure that we do that

17:38 the best way we can. Why is that exciting? 'Cause I love just hearing about what's going on in David's life. We pulled him off of the dozer. We were out there checking out our drill site and I

17:48 pulled him off the dozer and I said, come over here, let's talk. Tell me what's going on. And he's happy to tell a story. I mean, the guy's kind of alone in a dozer by himself What he tells me,

17:58 80 hours a week on our project. So praise him for that. I mean, that's amazing. But it's good to see the impact that we can have on David and frankly, his interest and he goes, I want to keep

18:09 working until I'm 80. He goes, I'm not sure yet. I haven't figured that out. But he goes, I got lots left. I mean, this is a 70 year old man running a bulldozer, 80 hours a week. And he's,

18:18 you know what even we get 80 year old men Well, I don't, we don't have enough time for that on this show, do we? Is that a thing? So man, that's true, but there's no shuffling going around on

18:29 that, uh, on that. He knows what he's doing when he gets into the dozer. But anyway, so, um, uh, but, but what was great about him was, uh, he, he was just grateful that he got to work

18:42 close to home. And I'm thinking to myself, man, this program, I, all of a sudden I had another gear on my mission. I was like, well, it's not just him. It's the other guys. I talked to the

18:52 site supervisor. These guys are excited about being near home. That's great for their families. We need to do more to make sure we're going to see this project through. I really hadn't thought

19:04 about that impact. Now in my mind visionary wise, I'm thinking, yeah, that's going to be the impact. This is great, right? It didn't really, I think, ring home until I talked to them and I

19:13 was on the site and really, and, and these are like contract partners, right? I mean, they don't work directly for pet revived. They're on a project. Well, I want to make it so that they're

19:23 doing all the work on our stuff So they can be home with their families and they can be part of their community And they can honestly just enjoy a good day's work nearby home because that's a tough

19:32 deal I mean, you know the world business people go where the work is and sometimes that's not next door sometimes that's States away counties away at least so but anyway having that impact that's

19:43 part of That's at the at the at the real root. That is the stewardship that We get to have In our role and and I want to see that expand I want to see that expand so that we can touch investors that

19:57 way too like our partners that we get involved I mean you asked some questions about fundraising. Well, it all comes back to stewardship and It's it's a very easy thing to throw out the word

20:06 stewardship. What does it mean? Well, it means that you're That you're stewarding someone else's resources and if you look at how The character of the man that is required or to be qualified as a

20:17 steward paul does a great job of that in his letter to Titus. where he talks about that when he's trying to help Titus understand how to build an elder board, if you will, for the church. Does

20:28 that have application in business? Of course it does, because you're talking about the character of a man. And the character of a man needs to meet certain criteria for you to be able to be a

20:38 steward and to be good at it. And I love

20:43 one more story on stewardship. I love how Jesus talks about it. He talks in parables, parables are their stories to help you understand the, maybe the more complex things in a simple way. And so

20:54 he does that a lot. And in Matthew 25, he actually talks about stewardship from the context of, there's a master who gives talents, talents, or a form of money back in the day. And he is

21:08 basically charged them, and there's multiple ways to understand the meaning of this. But the meaning is one meaning, But,

21:17 but he gives, he gives these stewards, if you will, three of them. One, he gives five talents, the other one, sorry, five talents, the other one, he gives two, and one, he gives one, and

21:30 he goes away on a long journey and he comes back. And the expectation that's set, which is more implied, not directly, is, that's a little bit direct, but it's, he doesn't tell you the how,

21:40 but he says the importance of the result is based on your effort to go and steward that and multiply it. And it's not for your own wealth building because it's not yours in the first place. You're

21:50 just stewarding it. That's, that gets missed a lot of times. A lot of people will read that story and they'll say, or that parable and they'll go, oh, so I'm, you know, they'll, they'll

21:58 impart it on themselves and go, this is about my wealth. It's not. You're actually building wealth for the kingdom. If you read it, how Jesus meant it, it's, it's not that at all. And so, I

22:08 love that because you're thinking about it in a way that the talents were the masters. year to go and multiply those two of those guys did it great. They were rewarded for that. The other guy got

22:18 cast into outer darkness. He buried it in the ground, which is actually even, it didn't say he went and frivolously wasted it. He put it in the ground and did nothing with it, which was actually

22:27 worse. So that's sort of the core of stewardship. I love that because that feeds everything we do. And it holds us accountable and it's hard. Like we make decisions every day where I'm like,

22:39 what's the right stewardship? And you know what's been awesome is to watch the team. Embrace that and how they do their jobs. 'Cause it's a mandate. Like that's how we, like it's a non-negotiable.

22:50 It's, I'm pretty flexible and a lot of stuff. I'm not flexible on that. To the point where we're even having those conversations, what's the right stewardship answer to work with our partner on

22:60 this when we run into a snag or, you know, something didn't work out in the timeline we wanted. So we need to call them and say, look, we're not ready for this, but we wanna be, You know, we

23:11 appreciate you guys. Here's what's going on. We got to give them the phone call in the right timing. So they have time to prepare on their side to make adjustments. You can't wait till the last

23:19 day in hopes of, you know, God's going to bring it through. Well, it doesn't look like that's the conservative stewardship place. So let's be conservative. And then if we come in before then,

23:29 great. But at least we gave our partners a chance to make an adjustment for their business. And that's already happened a few times because man, this capital raising is tough. So what's the

23:39 business model? I never got to that. So the business model. So yeah, no, yes, that and I went left and then right. So it's, the business model is it's straight up scale. So the idea behind it

23:56 is, is we want to take our first project, which is 50 Wells. We have20 million in science on this particular project already in the back. Where are you drilling this at? This is north of

24:07 Halitzville between it's about an hour. and a half west of here. So if you take 10 on your way to San Antonio, it's LaVaca County. Okay. So we're in LaVaca County. We have - Vertical wells,

24:20 where's that all? Yeah, vertical wells. Our first phase is 50 wells. Simple drilling, they are

24:29 naturally pressured. So heavy liquids content, which we like for obvious reasons. You get premium pricing, simple drilling It's an opportunity for, again, a stewardship idea there. You keep

24:42 cost low. You keep your maintenance, failure probability low, 'cause it's not, you know, like we're small companies. So that's going in drilling big horizontals and having, you got to have

24:54 capital at levels we don't have or really don't need to be trying to access at this level. You need to keep things simple. And they're mid-depth. I mean, you're talking, you know, not south of

25:05 10, 000 feet So, but anyway, the idea is, is we've got a scalable. view on the science, so we can turn that into economic value. And that is, it's really to bring scale to this project and

25:24 deliver a three X return to our investors in a five year period without an exit. We obviously, it is part of the strategy to seek an exit, but not necessarily one to execute on one unless it makes

25:34 sense for the partnership. So again, all that stuff we talked about before, it's an opportunity to create jobs. It's an opportunity to drive value for that local community that has been largely

25:50 ignored by the bigs, but the bigs aren't the ones you produce anyway. I mean, they're 10 to 12 of the market. I don't know if a lot of people know this, but independent companies, small and

25:60 medium sized independent companies make up between 87 and 90 of all the production in the largest producing country in the world. But anyway, the business plan is to,

26:13 I would say the most important thing about how we do that is the reinvestment. So very conservative underwriting, you know, we've got data that's, let's say, worth one. We've risked our pro

26:27 forma down to 60 of that. And our geologist has a 75 success rate at picking profitable locations So that spells value for investors. It spells value for us and it allows us to actually feed all of

26:44 this mission we're talking about. And so, and it's scalable. There's a whole lot there that we're still interpreting from the 3D seismic that we have. And again, you talked about, are we doing

26:56 PDP? This is all development. We do have interest in acquisitions as we get in a position to do that. There's a lot of variables that go into that as you know. And to be able to do that is it's

27:11 part of our longer term strategy. Right now we need to stay focused on getting this, this first wave out and proven. And again, we're in a proven area. This is a, we're not wildcatting. We're

27:25 not, I wouldn't even call this exploring. It's really not. I mean, we have proven trap types. We have thousands of well control to look at well logs We have proprietary data that nobody in the

27:37 area has. It's an unbelievable, it's believable actually 'cause I've seen it. The data's amazing. So, I don't know, that, that was still a lot of words for what's the business model, but it's

27:50 basically, it's all about scale. Something tells me you don't ever have a few words. I know what you did say in the beginning, the more you talk, the better it is for the show. So I was kind of

28:01 like saying that. Am I leaning into that too? Pull that back a little bit. Okay. My bad. Fair enough. Fair enough. I deserve that. Why? Why don't I just go buy PDP in the beginning? Why do

28:12 it the hard way right out the gate? Um, I don't know, some days I ask myself that very question I think it, uh, PDP is always nice, but it's kind of boring. Um, it's got a low, low risk

28:31 profile. Um,

28:34 I think to change the narrative and to do something unique like we are doing with this idea of stewardship and, and putting that out there, you need to be able to do that from a, um, you need to

28:48 make a bigger splash and it doesn't mean you couldn't do that from PDP. I mean, I'm sitting here asking myself that question. I think what happens is to be really candid, you get old school

28:59 influence in the industry, which isn't bad by the way. I'm not saying there's not, I just raved about all the discipline in the industry. That's not a bad thing to a point, but to innovate,

29:14 it's difficult to have that kind of old school influence and constantly be trying to get somebody. I mean, I actually considered it. I mean, I've had conversations talking about, hey, start in

29:23 the PDP and you can build off of that That's always the story. It's, you know, so it sounds like a little bit of a contradiction. Maybe it is, but that's why I don't want to, I don't want to be

29:34 slowed down in the mission by

29:39 old school thinking. And since I don't have100 million laying around, I'm not the one who's going to be making that decision. I'm going to be influencing that decision, which I have a little bit

29:49 more leverage than that influence in this model than I do that. That's why. control is probably what the answer is. That's fair.

29:58 Is the so you punch these first 50 holes in the ground. What's the North Star? Like five, five years from now, 10 years from now, you said exit if it makes sense, but assuming you don't, like

30:10 what is this? Like what do you, you keep punching holes in the ground? Do you have a, yeah, you have a vision of what this becomes stewardship side. Yeah. So, um, you know, just on a

30:20 practical level, um, there's in five years, I hope we're a lot closer to the, right now the vision is 50 wells. Okay. And this project, but the scale has scalability in

30:38 it. Excuse me. And when you think about that, um, there's, there's layers to this. I mean, honestly next year we should be on project two. So we're in petrovob one right now. That's this

30:47 project. There should be petrovob two should be starting in 2025. That's, that's really it. would look similar to this. Now, where you're starting to have some variances is we have other

30:58 formations that we're still analyzing, in addition to more analysis and what we learned inside this formation. So as you think through what

31:08 that looks like, the opportunity is substantial, but you know, this is a capital intensive business. So my five year vision is is we're, you know, north of a hundred wells If we can make the

31:23 analogous acquisition magic happen, you know, 300, 400 million company in revenue. And that's a huge number, but you don't get anywhere by thinking small. So and not operating small. And the

31:40 scalability is there, the field can deliver it. And it's funny because the bigs, they're not looking at what we're looking at. And the smalls, they don't know how to scale So there's this.

31:52 Vacuum that we're just stepping right into and we think we've got what it takes to to make it happen So how's the how's the fundraising experience Ben walk us through that?

32:04 I've It's been humbling. That's in a word. We've actually done pretty well all things considered so far the challenge has been just

32:19 You know part of the stewardship ideas is this particular project and this is really important. So the how matters in Order to create critical mass to overcome the

32:33 The the challenge of the decline curve which every operator faces is you've got to create critical mass in your production and you've you've got to be able to be willing to reinvest and the reason I'm

32:46 bringing that up is because Fewer people are long-term minded than you might think like. You know, you've got your old school investors who've done it a certain way, you know, working interest.

32:57 We don't do that. We actually have a partnership model

33:00 Where they participate in all the assets and all the asset value build and so they come in as equity advantage is working interest Yeah, they come in as equity not as working interest right and

33:11 what's working interest has so many limitations and so it's so much higher risk Like as a business guy coming in from the outside. I don't understand. I Guess that's the way they've always done it,

33:21 but that's that doesn't mean you should and if you look at how the bigs Do it and the companies that have actually scaled They've done that through Reinvestment of capital and you can only do that if

33:32 you've got the right equity base. So like you do it with debt too, but but that's kind of the issue is is that that we're just

33:43 That's been the challenge that we face in the in the Fundraising portion is finding truly long-term minded people. And because you're not gonna get a distribution for 18 months, you're gonna get a

33:54 great, obviously the IDC tax breaks are fantastic, but you gotta live on that and you're one and you're two, midway Q3, you're gonna see, you're gonna start seeing distribution scale up as we

34:07 begin to scale down the reinvestment, but it is both barrels, all reinvestment. So you can create that critical mass to get above your capital threshold, which is so important, and frankly,

34:22 honestly, no one's doing this at our level. No one is. And you know why? 'Cause it's hard. It's hard to raise money. It's hard to get people to buy into the belief, but we are committed to it.

34:31 'Cause it's the right kind of stewardship. And it's the only way you're gonna get the numbers. You can talk about monthly income that's gonna be at a certain level, and all these things you're

34:39 gonna do to work over wells later, to try to keep it at a certain level. You're never gonna get to a true, strong multiple inside a five-year window if you don't reinvest first, and have some

34:50 patience. Wait, have some discipline. Wait until you have critical mass because you've been reinvesting. And that's really the, that's the difference in petri-vibe one that most people just

35:01 aren't willing to do because it's hard.

35:05 I'll bring in general's hard. Punching holes in the ground is hard. Yeah, it's so dark down there. So dark, so dark. Peter, this has been awesome. Best of luck to you guys and everything.

35:14 We'll check in here in a year to see how you guys are doing. Awesome. What makes it happen? Thanks for having me, man. Absolutely. Appreciate it was awesome guys, take two seconds, leave a

35:22 rating review, share with your friends, we'll catch you in the next one.