Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

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0:53 to be digital marketers, Dot Com, forward, Slash energy, X. What is it Walkers? Welcome back to another episode of the Willing Asterisk Podcasts? Casts? Am he with Kelvin or a Peter Hardy has

1:07 gone Man. It's gone Gray. Yeah, It's good we've had a. We've we've been chatting for a while before we actually recording, and so I'm eager to hear to dive into this. You guys been on my radar

1:15 for a long time telling us it's surprising that we've never met. I've met some of your people. Yep, and a variety of events and stuff, But you're you're on the coast. We are where you on the

1:25 California, born and raised like Elio born and raised, Yeah, look at Yale. Colbert, and so, but I started coming here quite a bit in two thousand and fifteen, and now I end up here. What

1:36 seemed like every you every month or salaried. How did his San Francisco boy get looped into energy? Yeah, It's a. It's a great question, so I was talking about this earlier with that with some

1:48 of your colleagues. The the start for me was actually, you look back at the Persian Gulf War. Okay, so did Lucas. Where we're going. It's a little. It's a deep cut and my dad's a Vietnam vet as

2:01 okay we talked about, and one of the things that was always troubling to me is like why do we have a bunch of our soldiers over there in the Middle East. Like What's going on Granite Question with

2:09 Warren. General. Yeah, Alright, So what what are we fighting for over there and clearly at that point in time, we had a real concern around energy dependence on what was happening in the Middle

2:19 East and for me, that was a big aha moment cause of like well, Why like are there other ways like Why are we fighting over there for something that maybe we could get somewhere else and so fast

2:31 forward you come to sort of on the entrepreneur by background. My dad was an entrepreneur, like there's a lotta history of sort of finding interesting things to build. Iowa was always intrigued by

2:43 big industries that you could impact and energy is one of 'em right and I started to sort of look through what was happening around. Directional drilling and fracking and other staff going back in

2:56 fifteen twenty years has kind of building awareness, which is weird as a as a California kid, but it's a recognition that it's an incredible innovation. Both of those are incredible innovations,

3:07 and and I believe that had they come from the Silicon valley. We'd probably have a very different perspective on them. I think there's a certain degree of bias around like this amazing technology

3:17 innovation came from somewhere outside of the bay, and so maybe it's not as viewed as positively, but I started to think about. Are there ways in which those changes start to increase our potential

3:30 energy independence as a country and looking at ways in which we could you know I could support that in my, you know, in my little way, and I happened to have come from a more of an investing

3:41 background, but I'd also done a lot thinking about how do you run these operations more efficiently? How do you do things better and had a lot of access to interesting software and sensors and stuff?

3:52 Was or seventy beggar? Yeah? Let's expand upon that? So would you school? I went to undergrad at Pomona College began, so studied economics and public policy, so I come from more of a kind of a

4:02 finance guy dag, and then worked at, did some decent finance. Did some investor baking, yet to deny banking. Yeah, I was like here in, Sorry did in the U. S. For a little while was in London

4:16 for a year. Okay, I did early stage venture, so I got really kind of thing grown up in the Bay area. You get this taste of if you're going to. If you want to stick around, There's you see these

4:28 venture capitalists who have done exceptionally well and you're like. Hey. I could be like that, and so I kind of had a sandhill dream to some degree and so who I was, I would love to let's dive

4:37 deeper, and then he goes, Yes, I and I was able to achieve that, so I got to work with a really good early stage from for four years, spent three years, which which firms Dcm or doll capital

4:47 management does a lot of stuff. Early in out, kind of early stage software, com equipment bunch of things, and had a great experience both there and then spent a year in China. I got to open up

4:58 an office in Shanghai and spent some time in a lot of like emerging markets and starting to see what it took to build something that was actually successful. Yeah, and then I had the opportunity I

5:09 went to China. Not really knowing how it's going to end up. I hedged it with the application into Stanford Business school got in there, and so spent a couple of years at Gsb doing basically more

5:21 startup stuff, thinking about lots of different ideas. Even across you know sort of some solar thing, Some other really bad ideas. It didn't turn out and decided I was going to continue to invest,

5:32 Because frankly we were having you know having kids, and there was a risk adjusted way to do that. I did growth equity for a firm called T V or to county crossover ventures, Okay growth equity firm,

5:43 and then through that experience got exposed to we were big investors and Netflix, and in Facebook and. The Godaddy deal and got like up close and personal with Boyd deals. I mean, yeah, billion

5:55 dollar outcomes, really good job, and through that you just kind of start to figure out. Hey, these are in like what are the patterns that work and don't work, and where they're interesting

6:05 markets to go after and so having done that for awhile, So it's like I really want to build. I don't. I think there's a difference between being at an investor and being an operator Is as a as an

6:17 investor. You're kind of the editor. Right You can make comments on what other people are doing, but you're not the one to do, not the writer, not the creator A, and I was like I want one

6:25 actually create built up. I think that's where some of my beef lies. Really. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, and I think there's I think there is beef and that. Because if you are a creator, it's hard to

6:34 sort of sometimes deal with the editors. Especially like is for you have capital raising. You showed off your baby. Right, It's like either you're you're having these conversations, many which

6:45 are great, and then some of which are just like the questions that you get. It's like or comments, questions or comments, then you like, and you know something about this person's best routines

6:56 like you haven't built a fucking thing in your life, right and it's like it's like you've never been in my shoes like you don't know what it's like to have to like do these kinds of things. What

7:05 year. What year were you like What years were these two firms? So I, I started it at T, C V N O, seven, Okay, and I was there for five years and had before, so I was at. I started at Gsp, No

7:18 five, Okay, so call it two thousand to two thousand and five at Dcm and then another five years at Tcp So quick side tangent Death, go on. Do you feel like venture capital has changed since then,

7:33 And how yes, there are so much higher degree of specialization in certain areas. I think you're seeing real domain expertise that you wouldn't necessarily go back to two thousand. You had some very

7:46 broad categories. It seems like that was always the case. Yeah, and for a lot of the bigger kind of generalists who who knew something, but not the same level of of depth of understanding. I

7:58 think that's one thing that's changed. I think the second piece is that you know there's that you've seen just so much more competition in the venture market. So many more people came in. There

8:09 were a lot of Lps that were flooding into the space. He. It's oversaturated. I think today it's probably back to a little bit more of a rational spot, but it historically like two three years ago,

8:19 absolutely like them too much capital. I mean no, and low interest rates are going to yield a lot of people chasing returns, and venture has been a good source of return, so it's totally natural

8:30 just how markets have off, but the level of, I think the level of specialization has changed and we've seen the market the way in which venture guys build their firms has changed, so I, Yeah, we

8:42 were looking when I was at T C V This when Andreessen Horowitz are getting started. And they just had a different approach bright. They were like we're going to. We're going to pirate, Create.

8:51 Create all of this interesting serb. All these interesting services around that we're going to be very supportive. We're going to just back back those in debt like those individuals as much as we

9:01 possibly can, and there were people who thought there's no way that work right and fade to the next scene. You know you have an incredibly successful firm that's gone out and fundamentally changed

9:12 the market. So you're it's absolutely changed it. It was more of a cottage industry in the in the tour in the two thousands, and now it's a mainstream huge sector that has that against shapes

9:24 markets, right, You know you, You know a lot about this. I feel like the, and, and maybe this is maybe some my own navy tee, But it seems like venture capital. I have this like I dunno vision

9:38 of what it was in the beginning when wanting to truly like early days of Apple and Intel, like wanting to truly help founders. Grow a business and it wasn't just purely capitalist money driven

9:53 looking for returns, and so I had always thought it may I dunno, who knows where my life goes, but I'd always thought like. Yeah. I'd be a founder than that. I'm maybe a gun pursue. Like

10:02 venture capital is particularly. You know, six seven years ago, I thought that was can be a great idea, and maybe it is who knows, but it seems to me like now more times than not. It's more

10:16 about just the manufacturing process right of just coming in and just startups and founders, N do whatever's necessary to spit returns out the other end and it doesn't really seem like there's a

10:30 whole lot of like care for the founders or the actual outcome of the company and I could be totally wrong. I'm I'm like not in that ecosystem. This is just like me interfacing here and there with

10:44 with. Different groups and in of just speculating about kind of the, The sector is kind of like a whole, But that's the way that it. It seems that would feel so yet this sector has a lot of

10:55 different investors, and there are absolutely individuals who are sharks, and who are fierce and care only about returns, and there are others who are very in. You know sort of friendly just to

11:06 start and care about the founders more than the at and again. That's where you get the range. And that's why you know fit is so important. Right Who who is this person that sitting across a table

11:18 from me. Are they going to support me in the way that I need to be supported. Those are the choices you get to make when you take capital. If you're fortunate enough to have options night. Not

11:27 everybody has that It's always been fierce. Though I don't want you to think. Though I mean, I, I noticed like Don Lucas was a guy who was early early at Oracle is the chairman of Orca, He was

11:37 the mentor of this guide Dixon doll Who I worked for it, and I got to know Don pre well, and he was incredible mind. great at pattern matching, great at motivation, and fierce. And he was

11:50 constantly working with Larry Ellison to figure out how to manage Larry, right? And that was a situation where he was a great investor, but he wasn't a kind gentle, I'm just gonna sit here and hug

12:02 you kind of like individual. He cared about performance. And that's, that's I think what you realize today is performance matters. If you can, if you are executing to plan, your venture guys are

12:14 gonna love you. And if you're not, they're gonna call into question whether or not you should be in that spot. And if you, if you're not the right person, they're gonna try to find somebody else

12:22 who can. There's a ferocity to that, but it's all about, that's the contract you signed when you take, when you take capital. And it's, again, it's, it's, it's capitalism, right? And, and

12:36 it feeds people who are desirous of competition, who want to be able to win and who want to be able get the outside rewards. if taking a market and that's what I found today's peep like many of the

12:49 firms are just really interested in I want a billion dollar outcome like yeah that makes sense that if you've raised a billion dollar plus fund you need you need one or two of those to be able to hit

13:01 at that level if you're going to return that fund and that means that they're going to force you as an entrepreneur and me as an entrepreneur to push and push and push to get those big results and if

13:10 it fails it fails right and then it's onto the next one because they have a they have a portfolio do you have any like contrary advice coming from that space for founders who are looking to a venture

13:21 capital take as little as you can wait as long as you can until you have until you know you have product market fit yet one hundred percent and that's the thing that there's A and I understand that

13:33 everybody's in different situations but if you can scratch and claw and weight you're going to be a lot better off I was with I was with a buddy who's a classmate of mine who was the founder of a

13:43 company called bonobos Which was a men's pants company that raised quite a lot of money over one hundred million dollars. I know it. I know. Yeah, who's this guy and he his good buddy and we are

13:52 talking about. You know if you were to go back. What would you have done differently And one of the things he said was Hey, we probably could have run the same business with you know fifty people

14:01 vs two hundred people, and that would have totally changed the cash flow dynamics of that business. It would have changed the way that we raised in or outcome, and otherwise, and and I think

14:11 that's something to be really aware of his weight as long as you can raise as little as you can and just beef be fierce about trying to protect that those dollars as you are learning, and as you are

14:23 getting to product -market fit, and then all of a sudden Once you're in the jet stream great, then you can read your. You know you can read Hoffman and get lots of capital and go, but intelligent

14:34 point, you're much better off to iterate and stay, Stay small. We live. We live through that, I mean we we. This was a side practically related talking about for years, depth twenty twenty

14:46 rolls around, We decide to negotiate an exit from something else that was kind of our initial seed capital decided to leave something that was certain as more certain, Yep, and and do this thing

14:55 that we love. That was growing kind of behind the scenes. We had some investors lined up all just friends and family that meant covert heads. All of them disappear, but their trajectory that we

15:07 were on was very different from where we're at now, and had we you know poor little gasoline on the fire, we would have shot off in a direction that we would have diluted ourselves. We would have

15:20 had a lot of probably pissed off people Cause we really hadn't found like the product market fit. We really hadn't done enough work to really figure with a business was going to be. Yeah, right,

15:29 We were still way way way too early, and so am thankful looking back that that happened and things played out the way that it did, and and now three years later I think we're finally unlike the

15:39 exact course that we that we need to be Kudos to you. Exact course as a, that's a wonderful place to be. It's it feels good. It feels good when there's like them, and there's no like little

15:48 things that are bothering you and you're like okay. Well That's the thing is like Europe are in the jetstream or you're not downright, and when you're in the gesture, and you feel that pole and

15:57 everything is kind of like great. I'm going in. It's working. And until you have that experience, it's hard to explain to anybody else you have like a salmon. You feel like you're swimming

16:07 upstream Like everything's wrong. People aren't getting into like What's wrong with me, Which she asked outside just outside it and then it hits and they're like. Oh, this is this is this first

16:16 good right and that's the thing that most folks listen. Most startups don't get at full stop. Right They've never get product market fit. They'll try and try and try, but they just don't get there,

16:26 so you have to stick around long enough and have the resilience to be able to keep going until you find it and it's iterative and that's hard because everyone wants you to come in and say like I had

16:37 this brilliant idea and I picked it right from the beginning and executed. perfectly, and here we are. And we all know that that's bald-faced lie. Nobody talks about it though. I know, but this

16:48 is why these are good conversations because the fact is there's all this revisionist history after you've been successful about how you called it and how you were smarter and how you did all these

16:59 wonderful things. But that's virtually never the case. It's almost always like you just kept grinding. So effort matters, insight matters, and there's a lot of serendipity, right? There's some

17:13 things that break, they're way. Like COVID was probably net positive for you. Oh, 100. Particularly for our, so for a lot of reasons for the reasons that I mentioned, but also we've used

17:23 content to build this community and people who are watching their homes and nothing else to do but to consume content. And so that went from kind of on the map to like pretty much being on the map

17:33 during COVID and have been able to ride that wave kind of ever since. And that's serendipity, right? Who's gonna put into their business plan? And definitely an elemental and that's what I talk

17:42 about a lot. Which is you have to understand that and you have to be comfortable with randomness. Yeah, Because I talked to some founders, and they're like well. I have this plant right and and

17:51 and it's and it's all very linear. And if I. If I work really hard, it's going to work out, know, Yeah, maybe, but you have to get comfortable with the fact that there's so much randomness in

18:00 what goes on that you can't control for, so you have to have the fortitude to work your way through that and to be comfortable with the fact that like you worked really hard. You did all the right

18:10 things in it still doesn't go your way. Okay, pick yourself up. Keep rolling. Because it's the folks who stopped doing that who fell. Right. Yeah, If you keep going get a shot. The only thing

18:21 stopping guarantees is that you'll never reach their. That's right. You know it's it is not easy and I. I. I've totally changed. I don't want eighty from where I used to be whenever I run across

18:33 people who are like. Yeah. I'm gonna go do my own thing. Wanna be an entrepreneur and I used to think that I would like want to convince everybody that. Yeah. This is a great thing. To do yeah

18:41 right now, I will spend my time trying to convince them that they shouldn't do it. Because if my words and the the ten minutes that we talk can convince you to not be an entrepreneur. You know

18:52 you're never gonna make him the first exactly you've done. You've given them a huge gift. Guess it's a go and do something else and it's like I don't do this necessarily cause I want. I mean I

19:00 enjoy it, but like I'd do this because I don't have any other option. Like either unemployable I am wired this way. I can't go and work for somebody. Write Entrepreneurship is like a. It's like

19:11 oxygen. Yeah, and all I have to be creating and building something that energizes me, and if I don't I just wither away. Yeah, I totally understand and that's the thing that identifying that

19:24 about yourself and being self aware enough to be able to recognize it and act on it like that's that's excellent. That's not where everybody is a lot of people are hedging. Their. Like I want to do

19:34 this, but I don't really know. It's a great. Don't until you know, Don't go. Yeah, right and then when you know. Then you've got a real shot to be able to actually achieve whatever that. You

19:44 know whatever that entrepreneurial dream is that you have in mind, which is weird to me and I hate when we were like. Oh, I've always known since I was like really little, but that's what exactly

19:52 I'm going to say like I knew at a very young age that I never wanted to work for anybody, and I don't know why. Yeah, so it's funny. How held a lot of jobs, but even the hallway. I'm like. Nah.

20:02 Fuck this. I funny, so my dad was an entrepreneur and and I had a slight different accent, cause I think being the child of an entrepreneur. You get a lot of volatility. Oh, Yeah, Okay, My

20:15 kids hit so so one of the things that I realized was I and I was. They were very open. My parents were my mom and dad have work together. It's not to say my dad was the only entrepreneur. They

20:24 weren't entrepreneurial couple. So, and because of that you're you're you, you have all the volatility. There's no hedge okay, so good, good year, bad year. You're feeling it. I realized that

20:38 I wanted. Enough stability in my life that I never had to move back home, so my dad did a. He did a great thing for me, said when I was twelve, he's like at eighteen. I'll pay for college, but

20:49 you're never moving back. Okay, so you're done. You're cut off, but it gave me enough confidence that I said Okay. I've got time to figure out what I'm going to study what I'm gonna do and then I

20:58 realized I need to make enough money to be able to never moved back, so that's why I ended up going to finance. So I took an investment banking job cause I was like What's the risk adjusted Best

21:09 option to maximize my short term revenue. Basically put enough away. Got comfortable at that that I'm like okay now Go do something, but I said I never want to have to move back in with my parents.

21:20 That was a great motivator so picked up some skills along the way, Yeah, coming from from very humble beginnings. We never were without, But you know it's definitely the lower middle class for the

21:37 early years, and I think seeing Nancy. Install wizard things. It was like I. I knew I never wanted that Yep right in, so I think that that was like this and this need to to rescue myself right

21:49 into to have and seek abundance to where I'd never had to worry about anything ever read, and I never knew how that was going to manifest much a very creative person, so like I had played in bands

21:60 in high school and stuff, and then you know my father was a police officer for thirty years recently retired, and we are wired one hundred percent differently. Yeah, right, he seeks stability and

22:12 and knowing exactly how things are going to wake, play out, and and I. I thrive with risk and just kind of jump into the unknown, And Yeah, it was like every time that I at an early age was

22:23 wanting to kind of pursue something more creative with it be, and you know, go to like the Berklee school of music or go pursue filmmaking or or graphic designer, like there's always things that I

22:32 was interested in. Yes, That's a problem might image, didn't too many things it's not and I was like. We pour your whole life. Nobody. Those people don't make money, and I, and so I'm Riaa was

22:44 like okay, Well, maybe I'll go unlikely steady business and ended up our end up in the Marine Corps. Shortly after that, Yep got the discipline that I needed to able to harness all of this that I

22:53 was feeling, and I never. I never had any exposure. Like unlike you, I didn't. I didn't know the entrepreneurship was a thing, and we had no family friends who own businesses really write like

23:03 startups weren't really a thing when we were kids. At least Not to. Not in my circles. Yep, the only person I knew that even owned a business was like the local carwash, and like they were like

23:12 killing it like you would hear, but always like small business owners that really struggling and stuff, so, but I'd always like tinkered with things. I thought like inventing stuff was like

23:21 superheated really cool, So it's weird how it all played out and read how the creative side of me has been able to play into like this business, and actually building all of this but Cats. Yeah, I

23:33 don't even know how we got on this tangent, but I think this like self awareness, knowing it to yourself winners. Awareness, if you have that and then you can channel it, I think the discipline

23:42 pieces are super important one as well for entrepreneurs like you still have to have the ability to focus on something, because if you're constantly chasing the next shiny thing or otherwise, and

23:54 you don't have the ability to say I'm gonna get this done and focused and you're gonna fail to write. I think for me it was.

24:03 While you know we came from humble beginnings. I'd never face any adversity of my childhood. I even say next lot of people are like your childhood trauma is kind of stuff. I didn't get a great

24:12 childhood loving family. Even though the divorced. Everything was good ever faced bids to to my detriment, though because I never faced any sort of adversity, every and so going into the Marine

24:23 Corps was me manufacturing adversity and putting myself into a situation where I have no control. Yeah, and so it forced me to either man up or yep or drop by drop out night and the last thing I

24:35 wanted to do as. Go back and face my scent family and everybody all my friends and said that I wasn't like good enough to like clothes there, and so that molded me into a person that I am today,

24:47 and really set me on the path, and it showed me what the definition of true hard, hard work, particularly physically and mentally challenging work was raised the bar for me, and then also shall be

24:59 what I was made of trade, and so I was like okay, and then also showed me what it's like to kind of work in the worst corporation. Ever. Would Just you know the military was like whenever want to

25:10 do this again bright, so how can I take this and harness it into something? Yeah, and immediately I mean hit the ground running as soon as soon as I got out, I mean within within twelve months of

25:21 of getting asked my first company in while he has her, and that's the thing. It's like I think that experience of pushing yourself to a limit and then getting through that limit it. It just like

25:31 this. Oh, is it confident it's it's confidence in. It's also awareness about what's possible and listen. I think a lot of people put false limitations on themselves one hundred percent right, and

25:40 so once some and you've had, I'm sure coaches in the past of like pushed you to an uncomfortable spot and then you get through it and you're like Okay. I can go. I. I can still go right. Yeah, I

25:49 had similar experiences both on the athletic field, but also in work like I remember my investment up like almost crushed me. Right, I mean it was it was one hundred hours a week and it was

25:60 terrible and it was all of those things, but I picked up some real skills, but I also picked up the fortitude to be like I can do hard things. Yeah, eight and I can go through and I can survive

26:11 longer than other people in these difficult environment, think realizing that, realising that most people won't put in the work. It's easy to put in the work for a week a month, maybe even a year,

26:24 but to have just the intestinal fortitude to like even in the darkest of times. To stay on track towards your Norstar. I think of a year on a website with my life so much was written about you, But

26:37 I think about your twenty seventeen. I had. I'd worked my first startup poured everything I possibly had into it yet, and for two and a half years had commercialized Something was successfully

26:51 selling the Nps. They were using it. I was hands on when the customer and myself my partner. I had a falling out Notes of things were said that I couldn't forgive, and it was like that can't be

27:02 taken back and I can't move forward, and so I said, Let's say you still walk away that and so I entered what I still proceed to be probably my lowest point for a year, but during that time at rock

27:17 bottom, I still had my eyes on the prize and what I wanted to do it, so I was working on the next startup had no money. I had new investors, but I had a vision and had a little bit of a network at

27:25 that point, Yep, and so just staying consistent. Every single day working towards that, I mean I was working two jobs at the time to just to keep food on the table. I swore working one job that I

27:36 sort of pressure washing company, nice, and so was. Ah. Yeah, it was personal training cause I'd I'd known a lot about that and was doing that, and it was it was pressure washing the siding

27:46 between like sessions, cobbling together enough money to be able to to pay the bills, but also be able to invest into to building this next platform that working on her, and then we got to the

27:55 point. I you know twelve much on the road where the first investors, and then I was like here we go here. We go round to you know I had to eat shit for a year, but it most people take those those

28:06 things in there like while I'm a failure, or it's like I can't do it or I. How am I ever going to like? I've got to focus on my family instability and all that kind of set which I had you know at

28:16 the time, but just yapping too so laser focused on. Well, It's also getting through the darkness. Yeah, right like I think once again that shows you. What you're made of and I'm not scared. I

28:28 could lose everything and I'm like alright. Let's do it and that's I think that piece. Though around like okay, you've been through it. You understand you understand how hard it is and and the

28:37 darkness for me is like also just from a mental health perspective, which as a as an executive and ceo at a startup like you have so many ups and downs. It's not talked about enough. Yeah, and you

28:47 have to be able to talk about it. You have to like yeah, like there are times when I was depressed right, and like there are absolutely times where I know my other colleagues have gone through

28:56 serious mental health challenges and it's part of it and it doesn't you can't mascot. You can't tell me. It just goes away. It doesn't you takes work right and you have to treat the mental health

29:08 side like you do your physical health. Your. You know. If you've done personal training, You know that if you tear your Ac out like it's a surgery, and then it's going to be a lot of rehab.

29:17 Right I've lived. I lived a tour by Il. Do so than to if you go through a traumatic event in business strike, as as the ceo has a fall out with you. Founder at a traumatic event. Alright, She

29:29 got treated that way. Like okay, Well, What do we? How do I? How do I resolve that challenge? And then what's my path to actually working my way back because I'm probably going to have some real

29:39 scar tissue around it and I need to rehab it and try to treat it like you would a physical injury. That's the thing around mental health that again. It's a huge issue in this society. I think

29:49 there's a lot more awareness around it. It's still very early about how we talk about it, but I think it's important kind of informs like this to be open about the fact that like yeah, if you're

29:59 serious about being a founder, you have to be able to get yourself through really dark times now, but if you do a, you can inspire other people, you can help lift people up. Who may be it also in

30:10 a challenging spot, but you can show to others. It's possible to kind of work your way through. That would have you found to be the most help whether it be routines. Whether it be exercise, diet,

30:23 whatever to help you through to keep you. Same total during these dark times, the thing for me. That is that I. I got totally focused on first and foremost asleep. Because I was very much a sleep

30:36 when you're dead like ra, Ra Ra, like caffeine. All the time did that. For like eight years. Yeah, burned myself out. Will not only that like you. The more you study the impact of it. Yeah,

30:46 You weren't that product. You thought you were productive working eighty to one hundred hours a week. I'm sorry you were a puddle, and so your your ability to be effective with that is much more

30:55 limited than you realize. So sleep became something that I got very focused on, and I'm I'm a big piedra, t a fan, so like for me, that's kind of like that's one pillar. The next pillar is

31:08 exercise, and for me it's every single day. Thirty minutes of heart -pounding exercise. Do it doesn't matter and figure out a way to make that happen, and then you augment around it zone to this

31:18 and that okay great, but exercises the second thing, and then the third is really like healthy relationships because. If I don't have those first two, I'm not actually able to be a member of a

31:30 successful relationship, because as my wife will tell me you're being a dick. Like going to run like get outta here. Go do something like you're. You're not processing the way that you normally do

31:41 go get some exercise. Go burn it off so, but being in a position where I can have those healthy relationships is the next piece that gets me through those really hard times now and then after that,

31:53 Yes, diet's important and other stuff, but I think about those is kind of like the three the three pillars that allow me to have a good mental outlook on whatever I'm going to do next find losing

32:05 one of those three pillars of like my stool is going to tip over. I agree with all those, so I mean those are definitely threw pillows. I would add a fourth one for me that I found to be huge, and

32:15 whatever you wanna call it Whether it be alone time journaling meditation, some sort of like blocking everything out and being thoughtful and guiding yourself. Bruh, whether it be times of anxiety

32:28 or trials, tribulations of whatever, or it could be even something positive around your goal set at you, my the person that I want to be the spitting time with yourself, self reflection of self

32:41 awareness. Whether this is wither without Scylla. Simon. Yep, know a variety of different tools that you can use for that and doing that on a regular basis and am every morning when I come in, I

32:52 kind of like a shut my door and I've got like a least ten minutes to myself to get to really think through a few things, and and I found that that it is kind of really going through some daily

33:03 gratitude. Yeah, for sure, right Because I think that this is. I think this plays in the mental health thing. I think it's for easily cut up, particularly as we're talking about venture capital.

33:11 Right You take the capital. You sign the contract you're building for some sort of accept aid to be sold for ni peo, or something, and so it's very easy to think that happiness is a destination

33:23 associated with an it. Particularly if you've been doing this for ten years now in various iterations and you've had a bunch of taking a bunch of else deadly on, and then you start to have some

33:34 success, and then this is Ab. Things are going well,

33:39 But that's not the reality right Anytime you think that happiness is something you get to something. It's not it's not it. It's a. It's a daily. You have to choose to be happy at all. That takes

33:52 place between the seven inches between your ears. Yeah, knowing that I completely agree with that, and what what I've found is like you don't don't equate success and happiness, and I know plenty

34:02 of very successful people who are unhappy, and I saw that kind of growing up in the Bay area, right at some level. I mean I. I had early exposure to successful Silicon Valley executives and they

34:13 weren't they were very successful. They might be on the cover of a magazine. They might have millions of dollars, but they weren't happy. So so then you're then you're decoupling those concepts.

34:24 I don't believe that. If I am successful, I will be happy. It's like I have a choice and I have to set up circumstances to be happy and A and I may be successful, or I may not be. I don't know,

34:34 but those are not the same and so if you can decouple them, I think you have a much better approach to how you can go out and get your day to day work done, Because then it comes back to what you

34:44 focus on, right and I talked to my kids about this all the time like they're like. Well. What should I think about this test? I'm I don't think about the result of the tests. Think about what

34:53 what preparation do to do. What were the inputs you can control inputs. But you cannot control outputs. Story about it. Focus on what you can control so like. That's a lot of where I spend my

35:04 time. I'm like I can't control. I can't control whether or not Bp acts is going to divest all its gas wells. Can't control that like that was unfortunate for us, but it was something that happened.

35:18 Okay, Got it move on, Can't control that like I can control how I. Approach the next opportunity and I can approach how I prepare for that, but there's so many things that you can spend a ton of

35:30 cycles on that you can't actually influence now, so energy management for me as a big pizza. This like Where am I putting my energy and then and then you touched on something as well like finding

35:41 that time for stillness. I like that. You know if you're Ryan Holiday fan like that, The stoicism is to journal every morning. Yeah, see, I mean finding that too, where you're able to disquiet

35:52 now quiet. The outside influences find an opportunity to focus. It set you up much more effectively for the day, and then and then those days build on themselves over time and you end up like

36:04 accomplish, and quite a bit more verses being like I'm just run around and I'm constantly. I don't if I don't have purpose, and I don't have a series of things that I need to get done that build.

36:15 Then I won't ever achieve whatever my bigger goals. Yeah, man, we're going. We're going deeper. I get I get literally just take. This is on top of all these kind of things favour, and it's

36:26 funny. It's a one more thing. A drink recently were robbed your deck snowboarder map. So he was on Mtv for a long time. He has a podcast Bill with Rob. Just by himself. There's no gas him

36:37 talking. That isn't very well for himself and he has no worth is like half a billion dollars now or something, and so he's actually doing a lot of the venture studio thing that he's doing and has

36:45 leveraged his media kind of presence into kinetic building all of that and I, One of the things that he talks about is exactly what you just mentioned energy management air, so he literally has,

36:56 since he's built like a spreadsheet or some software to where he has like. I mean every minute of his day as planned down all the things that he needs to spend his time on all of his priorities. He

37:06 doesn't drink. He doesn't eat sugar and yet hasn't missed a day on his diet and like four hundred days and he's like dad. He was like I've been icing. I'm so happy because I do. Every single thing

37:17 that I know that I need to do that is getting me to my long term goals. He was like I have not missed a single day where I haven't won the day over a year. That means like that is this truly like

37:28 sustained happiness and joy, Because there's nothing left a question that everything is planned. You've and and again Kudos to him. I think that's that's a different level. It's a totally

37:40 different less. I'm not there yet. Yes, but I, but I also think that that in some way says he's focused on what he can control and he's not saying my happiness is tied up with whether or not I get

37:50 another incremental hundred million dollars or not, And it's like Hey. These are the things that I care about. I've made my priorities and I'm acting on those priorities cool. That is that is true

38:01 wealth when you can actually define how you want to spend your time who you want to spend time with people that you want to be with what are your priorities. Right. He is a cheap. That isn't need

38:10 to be a billionaire. He's not going to be. I think this whole. Ah.

38:15 The marginal value of Dollar starts to go down pretty directly once you hit certain levels and I think that this idea that just chasing more and more and more is going to yield some higher level of

38:27 happiness I don't buy it I know there's there's a lot to unpack within that but the point being is he's able that Guy's and I dunno him but he's able to define these are the things that I prioritize

38:39 this is what's going to drive my happiness and and act on it just think about it if you had all the money in the world Yep rent he didn't have to work yep what would be your purpose like where would

38:50 you spend your time every day would it be with your family would it be philanthropy would it be building something cause you know what's going to change the world and just building something cause

38:59 it's fun would it be racing cars like I think that all the time as if that answer is too different then from what I'm doing today then your then I'm probably off totally Yeah and I think that's so on

39:12 a personal level for me family is his first Right and I've got I'm incredibly fortunate to have a loving and supportive wife who's amazing and three kids but I also have an extended family of both

39:24 both sets of grandparents for the kids are still around I have good relationships with them and then sort of the family I've chosen who are people in my Life and I I feel very there's plenty of people

39:35 have more financial gains than I Do I also feel incredibly wealthy and the relationships that I have like when I got into business school one of the things that the derrick Bolton writes is kind of

39:45 like one line about like what about you got you in and what he wrote for me was your ability to build and maintain relationships is what's going to help you thrive at Stanford now and for Me I thought

39:56 that was an incredibly astute like he I'm like why he got me because for me that's where that's where they'll so much joy comes from so I love working with other people to solve solve our problems and

40:09 build things I don't Wanna do it all by Myself I don't care about the credit I don't care about that That's not actually is interesting to me, but if you've been on high performing teams, when like

40:19 everybody's aligned and it's working so fun right and you're you're accomplishing more together than you ever could do on your own and then you get to share all of all of that sort of that that wind

40:33 together, but also just the hard part of going through it. That's so fun right. I love that and so and honestly like that's what I get to do so relationships. Sir, I think undervalued early on,

40:45 I'm currently reading Johnny Rockefellers. Thirty letters to his son. This was never supposed to be a book. It was just they compile them over the years, now re -released it, and it's it's it's

40:55 insane. I love. It's one of the gracing. The were rather keep rereading it and, but I, I think about it. What what are the things that I want to leave my sons. Yet they're still young five and

41:04 three, but whether it be things that I teach them as they're growing into men, or things that you know certain life lessons. And one of the most important things is relationships, and it really,

41:15 I mean we. We've both community, and I'm very fortunate to do that, but that's through building one on one relationships, brick by brick by Rick. Yep, you know and actually genuinely caring

41:26 about people and helping them with their career and their business, and I just can't tell you how important that is, Because without that it meets all about who you know in this world. It's I think

41:38 the ability to build something with someone is really powerful thing. It's super powerful, and and when you do it, and you get the joy from like that's a source of joy from now and and that's where

41:49 I want what I want to do. Is I want to do things that bring me joy. They add, and if I'm doing that with somebody else and we're building something and again like there are real problems in this

41:59 world there, so let's go solve real problems and and let's deal with together with other people and that sounds a little like. Maybe that's to you know, sort of Hippy Dippy Silicon Valley, like

42:10 you know. But the truth is when will you do it. It's so uplifting right, and you show you. You bring people out and you show them what they can do together, which is which is oftentimes more than

42:23 they believe that they can do on their own And I think that's one of the things I I love is the ability to help. I sometimes I feel like I see more potential in people than they do in themselves and

42:33 this is at. I think I do too almost to a false. Yes, So this is I have. I have a wonderful head of people operations, who constantly as like you can't fix every broken wing. Yeah, and and

42:45 that's it. That's been a really helpful source of feedback for me Because I do feel like I can be helpful, and that is not always right, and in many cases it's not. It's also probably not the

42:57 place that I should spend my time, but I, but I feel that commitment to other people and I really do again. I get joy out of helping make something better. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that hits home.

43:11 Yeah, I think a lot of times I find like somebody took a diamond in the rough, and it's like I could potentially have more belief in them than they have in themselves and so I try to limit myself to

43:21 just giving them encouraging words and advice and stuff along the way, instead of having to roll up my sleeve and that's I mean. Then that turned them into what I hear that you're far more evolved

43:29 than I, but I think that that's something that. Too that I've had to. I've had to learn about myself. Is that there's a finite amount of time that you can put into those situations, and and at

43:39 some level everybody's independent. They get decide what they want to do with them Apps? Who who am I to say who should be right? That's right, so so what was the? So you're out in California?

43:48 Either you? You've you've done the venture capital thing. At least twice. At this point. Yep, Do you roll right into Kelvin. Or as I started, Kelvin, really with an idea around using a lotta

43:59 that the new sensor data that was coming Because this is again lots of in ubiquitous watches, phones, otherwise lots of sensor stuff that was coming together. But also a recognition that with

44:12 compute storage costs going down, we were just going to be able to understand the physical world differently than ever before and be able to measure it and like Kelvin is Colin. Because Lord Kelvin

44:22 used to say to measure is to now okay, So there's an element of this which is like. How do we really understand what's happening out there and we started our first oil filled application. Literally,

44:33 we took Android devices, put them in plastic boxes, and we zip tied him to a bunch of pump jacks outside of Ponca City, Oklahoma, And what was the? Was the first use case. What it was about?

44:43 How do we understand sort of what's happening with the pump? The beam pump itself like, and the motion detection. So you think about it. You had wells out in Oklahoma. You've got these well

44:54 whispers. Right then go out. They could put their hands on different parts of the pomp. They understand how the vibrations were. They mean, So you take that information, and you start to think

45:04 about like hey, Can you can you capture that on a persistent basis Because it's only captured when that person's out there? Right now, and and starting to use that as an example of like those types

45:14 of relationships around motion patterns, vibrations, and otherwise like they're informing what's happening, you know with that system, so we started with that in it, and it frankly started work,

45:26 and more so than we sorta probably realized it would so for the purposes of like Prussian optimization of saying Yeah, So that's kind of where it began a stroke choke all that kind of style that good

45:34 stuff, and and and the more that we evolved into that we started to realize like that problem around understanding of that physical system. We could do. We could do a better and better job of that

45:46 as our software got better and better, because for us it was all about pattern matching to derive an insight right and based on that insight, you take an action, so it's pretty simple to say, but

45:58 the truth is a lot of times. Folks don't they're not watching that system enough or they don't have enough awareness to be able to really understand what's happening all the time and we started to be

46:07 able to do that so. it began with some small operators there we got have a lucky break frankly with some folks at BP and began to show what was possible not just Iran kind of one lift type but as we

46:20 started overall across a broader set of production system so into plunger lift and we just kind of kept rolling but we also realized was that there were limitations just around if we were only if

46:32 we're going to continue to do this with hardware and and services and software which is which is really kind of what we were doing from the from the get -go and what I what I started to see was there

46:46 was more and more information that was coming out of these systems that was just data so if you could gather the data appropriately you could start to understand how to control the system better than

46:56 it was before so we ended up making a big strategic decision that we were going to actually move away from the hardware business and so that was heart right that was one of those really difficult and

47:07 and integrate it was informed by the fact That too, they don't call it easy. Where via satellite. That's one and the second is a conversation I had with a big controls company who basically said

47:20 like hey, we're getting out of the hardware business. Like what talking about, and why you doing that are like we're not big enough. I'm like you're not being enough like. Are you kidding me?

47:30 You're you're like hundred x bigger than we are. Yeah, We don't have enough scale. It's Apple's foxconn. We're going to use commodity staff were just not going to go build our own, and I was like.

47:40 Oh gosh we can't do this anymore, so it was like those moments of awareness, and, but as we did that what we started to realize was then we needed to make sure that our software was robust and

47:51 awesome, and and really again, folk back to the entrepreneurial piece, Like Focus on what we were the best at, and we understood how to connect to these systems to be able to not just read

48:02 informations. A lot of folks out there that are pulling information out of these systems is starting to stitch together. But our insight was that is necessary, but not sufficient. You actually

48:12 have to read and write back. You have to be able to like for you to recognize the real value of this. These types of insights. You need to be able to act on them and then measure, did it work,

48:22 Did it not work so that you're moving from sensors to essentially control dimension. Yeah, so we decided like we're controls business like we're a software business that is going to be able to

48:33 connect these existing oftentimes disparate systems together, but make it a lot easier for the best engineer to come through and be like. I actually can build an application now to run this part of

48:46 the field differently, so for us in our business today is all about applications optimizing assets. Okay, Super simple to say to multiple apps within a single application, New deployed on

48:58 different assets. Yeah, and you can run it as I start with and a basic application. Then I'm going to optimise. You know if some part of the production process could be a beam pump plunger lift

49:07 doesn't really matter. But but there's an engineer on that team whose like I know how to run this really well, and I want my day to day tasks of like what I am doing to optimize that I want that to

49:19 be done for me. I want the software to do it, so I don't have to. So now what we're doing is we're solving what is in my mind. Like still the fundamental challenge of this industry has, Which is

49:29 there's not enough engineering time to full stop every engineer that I talked to in the fields like I don't have enough time to get my stuff done. Right. How do you solve that you give them a tool

49:40 that actually allows them to do their job more easily. That actually frees 'em up becomes a force multiplier for their day to day and and once you've started to show what's possible, you can begin

49:51 with real basic applications, Kind of, If this, then that types of offerings, but it gets more interesting as you start to look at. This is not just a single asset, but as part of a system,

50:01 right and you start to look for applications that can take in new information I can take and reservoir data and I can take it. Other you know other activity from parts of the field, and I can feed

50:12 that, and so I'm now looking at this as this living breathing physical system that can be controlled in a way that wasn't possible before, and that's kind of where we were. We see this evolving.

50:24 As these. These applications are becoming more and more ubiquitous and we're enabling a whole bunch of engineers to build this stuff, and that's the other really fun part about this is. We want.

50:35 We want to give great tool so people can build, and if you are, if you are the best person at compressor optimization in the Permian will goodness like you should have. You should be able to create

50:48 an application or there that helps optimize a bunch of reciprocating compressors Grain Like. How do we make that easy for you to be able to be successful cause? That's something that has banned

50:58 really powerful as the more that we can empower the engineers who can say like take your best engineer on their best day. What are they do right? If we know what they're doing and we can help them

51:09 do that job, If frees him up to work on other more important things, and we start to address, you know one of the earlier comments was if you have eighty eight per cent reduction in enrollment in

51:19 oil and gas jobs across the top schools in this area, you have a huge problem looming to you better be capturing and codified what your best engineers are doing cause. If you don't, they're gonna

51:33 retire at some point or they're going to leave and go somewhere else? What does that mean for you know? So so we've just we've we've come at this with this up or originally we had ideas around. Hey,

51:43 we can build better models and we can do these things. Now. We're just like like let's just empower your best engineers. Were they doing like? Let's get them winning. Because by the way there's

51:53 this huge other challenge right where you've got Ceos of all these operators. You You know you obviously know a lot of these folks and they're talking about. I got to increased production. I got to

52:04 drop my operating costs. I need to hit my E S G goals and I need to stay safe all at the same time and you're an engineer. Or like whoa. Do I do like. How do I balance? Those are for potentially

52:18 conflicting objectives. What do I do? Now We need to give people tools to actually solve these real problems and to make them to recognize that every engineer has a different set of problems and is

52:31 trying to solve and and every field is a snowflake. To some degree every well has its own characteristics. So like honor the fact that there is difference in that, but give people tools that

52:42 actually allow them to use that knowledge that they have, and potentially then augmented it with other stuff, Like a lot of what we're focused on today. I mean a eyes everywhere. Right, We we

52:53 think there are limited applications, but there are real applications of Ai in this world. They are wonderful when they augment human understanding. They're not just Gonna go and like figure all

53:05 this stuff like this Generative AI stuff is not just going to figure out like how to optimize the set of wealth er nok it's not going to do it all by itself so instead come up with ways in which you

53:16 can empower your engineer give them better tools that are fit for purpose to be able to actually drive yes you can drive better production and you can reduce operating costs and you can be able to

53:28 address e s eagles and you can do it safer but you're going to have to use some technology to probably make that happen cause you're not going to go get a to -go hire a whole bunch of new folks to do

53:37 that so you guys still focused time is it mostly pressure optimization and engineers or so at what all the various Yeah so so what we're finding right now is sort of that that the CEOS are interested

53:51 in this in a big way because it allows them to achieve these big goals that they have but the true users are sort of two -fold one R Production engineers, who are able to use applications to manage

54:03 their day to day and that's oftentimes in upstream production, but we're actually finding now engineers and other sectors that are starting to be interested, so we've got some interesting

54:12 opportunities now in mining in it process. You know different process industries. That there's also this group of builders, Fate, who are creating applications and and news are traditionally more

54:24 software engineers. They may be somebody who has an interesting model that they've built in Python. That or they've got something that they built an Excel, and they're just trying to figure out how

54:34 do I take this thing without that has potential energy. Because it works. I can see it working in simulation, but I can't operationalize it and we want to. We want to basically allow that

54:46 potential energy to become kinetic. We want to take a model and turn it into an actor. Cause you know what actors always make more money than models rightly So so we want that we want that change to

54:57 happen. And we want to also do it in a way that's safe and secure and scalable, because you can't just have a bunch of models running around an operating in these in the field, without there being

55:08 the appropriate set of like basically guard rails, and a lot of what we've done from a control perspective is make sure that we know which application is running what decisions are being made. What

55:21 is the state of the underlying asset. What changes are being made. Are they within bounds like all this stuffed. It's frankly like down in the weeds that the engine, the software engineer and the

55:32 production engineer doesn't necessarily care about. They just want to make sure that things are not going to break. They're not going to be in a position where there is a problem, but they don't

55:42 want to have to learn all of the ways to code into these existing systems. They just want to use whatever their current format as could be Python could be excel. To be able to create something, and

55:53 then we can take care of helping to package that and turn it into. This application that can have real impact on the operation. What are some of the most common things that you guys integrate with

56:03 other other systems and stuff the engineers. Yeah, so so in data De wall will talk to the Pl. Cs the art to use the stuff that town of on -site them That's managing wells in other situations. If

56:15 we're talking about sort of completions, customers. We're we're we're working within potentially within the van, to be able to connect to the different pumps that are operating. There were also

56:25 connected to the skater systems, because every one of the changes that gets made can can needs to be recorded back like that still is where we see a lot of the information go back through, and then

56:38 it can push back up to the historian. So we end up in this world where arts. Our software sits at the edge in a in a node that can be on existing hardware that they might may already have out there,

56:49 but it also has to connect back to the class, and so that there's this world of will sit within. In a W, S instance of a customer that is trying to figure out how they can take models that they've

56:60 built and sagemaker and push them down by great. We can connect to those systems and be able to bridge to the existing software that they're are already using the existing infrastructure. That's

57:11 already in place. So we're trying. We've really simplified that whole roll, so so that you're operating technology. Your Ot team is comfortable with the fact that this is going to work within the

57:22 bounds and is easy to use, But your I T team and your folks who are coming at this from more of a cloud data science perspective. They get to use the tools that they want they want to build in

57:32 Jupiter notebook, and they want to push it great awesome like we can packets that were just trying to simplify. Because these worlds have been very divided. There's lots of ity ot conversations

57:41 hysterically. But we look at it is this is realizing real potential between subject matter expert to really understand how a process works, and software developers who were able to articulate that

57:53 in something that can become code and. When you start to put those things together, you're you're building really powerful applications that can drive impact in these operations. What are the

58:02 biggest challenges for you guys. For us. It's a lot of getting getting customers comfortable with the fact that it's possible we see today that folks are very interested in starting to gather data

58:16 and push it to the cloud right and there's a lot of orientation around that The next piece. Though is how do you use that data in the cloud to actually help drive better decision making and and then

58:27 that's where we typically get involved as you've you've made a commitment to do some degree of digital transformation. You're interested in seeing what's possible with your information, and then we

58:37 can come in and help opened that up for them, But this is the is a journey. Right. You've got some folks. We're just now getting comfortable with the idea that they can push their tear up and that

58:48 these things are possible, so what we try to do is make it really easy to show up. What we can do and so we find we know we have operators. You know we just announced this big enterprise deal with

58:59 Santos in Australia, and they were super excited about the idea of getting two autonomous operations, Which by the way sounds kind of scary right, It's like what does that really mean is that

59:10 robots running the field and the truth is it starts with something that's how do I. How do I capture and codify one of my best engineers do Ryan, so that they don't have to go in and do that in the

59:22 same way that they're doing it today, but now I'm putting that information into suffer, so that I can learn right and I can. I can measure how decisions are being made and the system can start to

59:33 be able to learn for itself Like we talk about this sort of journey from automation to autonomy. Like in automation. I'm setting the rules. I'm telling this thing what to do, okay, But as you

59:44 start to move to autonomy, it begins to explore and start to learn for itself and that this is the system that we want to be able to help enable. That takes time right. That's not something that is

59:56 going to happen overnight. You know, and Waymo's a perfect example. Right If you're in San Francisco, there are quote unquote travelers Cars Waymo is driving around right now, But there's still

1:00:07 somebody at the wheel right in in its learning how that person is driving and it's just getting those reps of like okay. In these situations. What does it do in these situations was do it. It's

1:00:18 learning, and then over time it starts to enable that person to have less time. You know they don't have to watch the road. They can take their. You know they can take their hands off the wheel,

1:00:28 but their eyes are up, and then they can take their eyes off the wheel and eyes off the road and they can look down at their phone, but they're still sitting there, but at some point time they

1:00:36 don't need to be in the vehicle anymore. These are the steps that it takes with a lot of these operations. Were you just like let's learn how it's being done today. Let's let's observe the best

1:00:45 practices of best engineer on their best day, and then once you have that, then you can start to scale it an augmented and tickets. Prosperous parts of the operation. It's really interesting time.

1:00:56 Especially in the past few months would just like all of the mergers and they and the consolidation. I don't think we're done. If he could still agree with you. I think there's going to be a few

1:01:06 more big ones that kind of come out of left field for better. For worse. Whatever that's worth, And what do you feel like? What do you think of the opportunities with with what you guys are doing

1:01:18 on them are in terms of the merger side or how does that? No, none as 'em interesting? More so like opportunities for for technology, kind of Bollywood, What you guys are doing opposite you and I

1:01:25 were talking about tens of Ai. Stuff. Yeah, stuff, but I think there's a huge amount of ways to start to think about oil and gas is a much more integrated system from from the upstream side to the

1:01:38 midstream side to the downstream side and and that is breaking down a lot of the historical silos that haven't existed, and we can see where there's potential for that because we are, We're already

1:01:51 seeing folks who are. Integrating okay, I can see how I. I can see Where might you know I may have a pressure spike in the inner part of the field, and and I can regulate other parts of the field

1:02:01 to sort of normalize that and get it back into that, so that when I'm actually hitting my distribution point, I'm staying within bounds, so we're starting to see examples of like where that's

1:02:10 possible, But for me I look too. I looked at parallels in kind of the financial services world and I think about high frequency trading, okay, and how we've worked our way from a bunch of

1:02:23 individuals who are making decisions control decisions around buying and selling things to a world where it's all become much more programatic and there's system level awareness around Hauer Hauer

1:02:35 certain movements over here in one part of the market, impacting how I'm trading over here. I look at that, and there are parallels to what will you will see an oil and gas like these are physical

1:02:44 systems. There are. There's going to be changes that are happening downhole? How is that going to then inform how we produce that Hydra? Urban overtime and how do we integrate that more together

1:02:55 as this as this complete solution that will then probably inform supply chain decisions in certain areas, and potentially you know, come up like how do we hedge certain strategies like it. It can

1:03:07 become much more integrated and that's not how it is today. Right There's interesting aspirations for some of it, but that's where I think you start to see like some huge efficiencies, and then the

1:03:18 other pieces, just I think there's tons of interesting new technologies that are going to be applied to traditional production. I was I was sent earlier. There's I was at this conference. Climate

1:03:29 impact a couple of weeks ago in London, and Vicky was talking about what Oxi sees in terms of some of the potential gains right, and today the normal, you know you're normally getting basically ten

1:03:40 percent recovery out of a lot for lucky. If you're lucky. Yeah, Well, there's pretty good evidence that some of the you know the more advanced Yo are techniques you can get to nineteen percent.

1:03:52 That's amazing without punching more holes of the ground without punching morals in the ground, so my belief is that technology continues to find ways to innovate or there are opportunities for

1:04:01 technology to be used in innovation to solve very real problems, and we're looking at that where ten to nineteen percent, that's a huge potential gang right now, so a love that, and I love the

1:04:13 idea that then again back to sort of my original impetus. For some of you know, My, this, this the work that we do. I want that to be operationalized and I want it to be scaled and I want it to

1:04:25 continue to allow us to have as much energy independence as we possibly can, which will continue to provide cheap and abundant energy for Americans, and for the rest of the world, as revealing as

1:04:37 could export low with a billion air conditioning units are going to come into this world and the next fifteen years, while to think right, That's the main thing about. It's possible. Yeah, right,

1:04:49 and what does that mean like how you empower that? That's where I believe that we have to look at lots of different energy options, right, and the more that we can use our oil and gas capabilities

1:05:01 efficiently to provide that energy. That's fantastic. Yeah, and we're going to have to augment that with lots of other things like there's there's going to be the alternative sources that will

1:05:09 continue to develop. We just have a lot of demand last thing in closing. Yeah, and you can interpret this. However you want. Okay, What are you most excited about?

1:05:20 Let's see. At this moment. I really am. I'm excited about how the energy industry in the U S is is consolidating to try to address some some big macro economic concerns and I think there's huge

1:05:38 efficiency gains, and I also think there's the application of technology that's going to be really powerful. Like I get super excited about some of the work that Oxy is doing. I fundamentally

1:05:47 believe that you're going to see more and more innovation out of the super majors. And and the consolidation does help with that right. It's going to helpful resources get get utilized and I think

1:05:57 there's going to be big efficiency gains. So I get. I think there's more technology to get used here. It's very early innings. As far as I'm concerned around Hauer. How are utilizing much of the

1:06:08 offer more advances in Ai, but also just changes in material science, like I'm an optimist. I believe that like we're going to be able to do things more efficiently more effectively in the future

1:06:20 and it's got in. We have to write. There's there's just there's no shortage of demand. No payment, especially the material science. At its. It's it's wild, and they finally. People are

1:06:29 starting to kind of wake up and pay more attention to it. Even two years ago. It was less than one percent of venture capital who is going into material science behind you. Have this demand for

1:06:40 could be these which I think we're starting to see kind of cool off without the announcements that have happened recently with Gm and other automakers, but the the geopolitical implications of cobalt,

1:06:50 cobalt gravel. Yep. All that stuff being in China, like, so I think you're gonna see, I still have to say, a lot more innovation and probably a resurgence of American manufacturing as we're

1:07:01 slowly bringing down the cost of manufacturing. Absolutely. After a here state side. I actually talked to a group, we're really plugged into the Bitcoin mining scene. I do believe that Bitcoin

1:07:12 mining is energy infrastructure and is driving a ton of innovation in the space. And one of the main issues, once again, is that all of the ASICs, which used to be GPUs, so the miners are made in

1:07:24 China, except one group now. Some of the former Palo Alto networks guys have leveraged their network and are now manufacturing ASICs in the US. to design their own ships and ASICs, and it was

1:07:38 wildly, wildly expensive to do so. That's why nobody was getting into it. But now, guess what, all these American miners don't have to rely on the supply. Why chain issues shininess of deal

1:07:51 money flows geopolitical risk, that all of that, and that's that's exciting for us to where we've seen a lot of these cars of new manufacturing opportunities, any of us, and that could be energy

1:08:03 related, but it can also just be Abba process that I want to do more efficiently, and you know we sell control software like we care about being able to control that as efficiently and cost

1:08:13 effectively as possible, So we look at them are like. Hey. Those are opportunities like those are the folks that we can talk to to be able to actually say you don't need to buy from the exalt old

1:08:21 school existing infrastructure side who are going to say is is really expensive box with some services and some crappy software like let's use commodity hardware with some really good software and see

1:08:33 what kind of things we can do together. We like that as well as another kind of interesting new opportunity for growth. Venice Been great. This is the longest podcast we've done ones. I really.

1:08:44 Yeah, alright, know this is like really say I could easily talk. For another three hours, although most of you are probably getting to your destination on your commutes, where to go and rapid

1:08:52 there, either thanks for coming a pleasure really enjoyed it. This was great guys Take two seconds. She has. Will your colleagues in will catch guys when I Simpson.