Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

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0:57 What is up, Wildcats? Welcome back to another episode of Will Yes, sort of podcast. Today I got my buddy, Matt, Matt, I can't speak today. Matt Elbert with Tackyas. Sorry guys, I had way too

1:10 much coffee this morning and I'm having a hard time articulating what I am thinking, but Matt, you're here with Houston, your CFO CRO at Tackyas. I'm excited to talk today.

1:26 Yeah, me too, thanks a lot for having me. I really appreciate it. Maybe I'll talk a little bit about Tackyas and sort of how it's changed this last time when we were on the show. Yeah, we had

1:28 you guys on the podcast three, four years ago, and so I'm sure a ton has changed. We're really quickly for anybody who's listening who's not familiar with you guys, high level, like what does you

1:38 guys do? Sure, so Tackyas has two main verticals. One is focused on using data physics to basically operationalize reservoir simulation in a way that hasn't been done before. And so far as looking

1:51 at building models in days or weeks as opposed to months or longer. for secondary and tertiary oil production. So think like water floods, steam floods, CO2 flood, polymer flood, where we're

2:03 able to build a model very quickly. You're able to then use that model to run a bunch of, I don't know, what if scenarios, you know, what if my injector shuts in, what if I change my injection

2:12 rates across different, my different injectors, and then ultimately get to an optimization. We've published a bunch of SPE papers and EAGE papers with our clients where we show anywhere between a 5

2:24 to 15 increase in oil production. And in some cases, even a 5 to 15 increase in reservoirs as well based on the sweep of the water flood. So that's our core fundamental vertical. I would say it's

2:37 our flagship product that's had the company was found that it's what's been around for a long time. Concept behind it was always to bring AI to the oil and gas industry. And I think, you know, I'm

2:46 sure you'll agree, the industry's gotten better in the last decade. We're still not aerospace or defense, but we are better than we were So we're significantly better in the last five months and

2:54 even particularly the last No, let me flash five years in the last six months. And it's funny 'cause you know, we've been doing AI for a decade, but you know, November comes around, chat GPT is

3:02 that, I start talking to customers like, hey, you guys do AI? Yeah, well yeah, like chat GPT, not quite, but is it free? No, no, no, not free. So there's that, and then the other

3:12 vertical we've got is, we have a greenhouse gas product, we call it Orion. And you know, there's a lot of products out there today that track emissions in some form or fashion And we do that too,

3:26 you know, scope one, scope two, scope three. And we've sort of productized the EPA reporting, if that's your thing, we've sort of turned in EPA reporting, it turned into TurboTax, which I

3:36 think is really helpful 'cause today there's a cottage industry of companies out there, mostly consultants that come January one, they hire a consulting firm to come in, the EP does. And hey,

3:46 they spend three months figuring out what the emissions were and they report it. Because if you emit more than 25, 000 metric ton, independent industry you have to record.

3:56 EPA, 20 of that soil and gas, the rest is things like manufacturing, construction, agriculture, you get the point, waste management. So we've made that process a lot easier, but really the

4:09 thesis behind the product is today companies have teams of people that monitor daily production and they forecast out future production.

4:19 We believe, for regulatory reasons or otherwise, soon enough companies love teams of people that monitor daily emissions and forecast out future emissions and an Orion lets them do that and it's a

4:27 software only solution and it's cool because you think about a field development planning perspective and that's what excites me. So that's sort of what the two main verticals the company has.

4:40 The main change and I

4:43 have a lot of respect for the guys who started Techies and frankly a lot of gratitude because I have a job because they were able to go out and raise a bunch of money on a good idea. That said, in

4:55 In late 2020, Fernando Gutierrez, who's our CEO, took over. And when he took over, we had one client on an expiring contract and basically no revenue. And I'm not making that up like literally

5:08 no revenue. I mean, part of that was COVID related in fairness. And part of that was just some challenges that we'd had. And Fernando came in and said, look, let's just take a step back here and

5:20 think about who we are as a company. We're not a product based company We need to be a sales based company. Fernando, like most of us, come out of Schlumberger or SLB. And so we're service

5:31 company guys with a service company focus, and we've really tailored our business to deliver for our customers. And as a result of that, now we have dozens of customers and lots of revenue. We

5:45 always want more revenue and it'll get me wrong, but we've grown the business at over 100 a year every year and we're well into the seven figures at this point.

5:53 And we're continuing to grow and our outlooks are really positive. But I think that's the main change is that we went from being run by folks that were super bright and really understood the

6:04 technology space and the called Silicon Valley space to folks who come out of the oil and gas space and have sold software to oil companies. And we moved our headquarters from the Bay Area to Houston

6:18 because this is where our clients are And so, you know, the

6:24 CTO, Dr. Pallav Sarma was a PhD at Stanford and basically, you know, reservoir engineering, petroleum engineering, operational engineering, whatever you want to call it, operations management,

6:35 I think is technically what it's called, is one of the guys that was around from the beginning. But apart from Pallav, you know, it's mostly folks that were maybe already in tackiest, but weren't

6:47 at a senior management level And I think that's been the big change in something that I'm really proud of. Uh, one thing we didn't have before was the Oregon product. We didn't have a greenhouse

6:57 gas product at all. And we're not political folks, but when the new administration came on, we thought, well, you know, oil and gas might go from being the redheaded stepchild to kick right out

7:07 the family. Um, just, you know, the new administration in 2021 was talking about, you know, energy transition and getting rid of everybody entirely in the oil and gas space And it's, it's

7:19 somewhat, it's somewhat ironic because, you know, oil and gas accounts for 42 of global emissions or something like that. So just kicking it to the curve and not wanting to work on improving it

7:31 didn't make a whole lot of sense to us. Sure, we're biased, we're oil and gas guys. But when I look around any room I'm sitting in, most of the things in the room are hydrocarbon. So the notion

7:41 that it's going away in the next two years, look, maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem Overly likely let's say and so we wanted to come up with sort of a pragmatic approach to the energy transition.

7:55 And look, our flagship products, they help companies to reduce the amount of water that they're pumping down whole, or the amount of steam, or the amount of CO2. It helps them to increase their

8:10 production and their reserves. And you think about, what is the highest emitting part of upstream oil gas? Well, it's drilling. So if I can get more oil out of an existing reservoir, without

8:20 having to drill a new well, that actually has a material impact on emissions. And then as we built out the greenhouse gas product Orion, we did it in conjunction with our clients. And what we

8:35 found is basically that the product develops sort of three moats. The first moat is the other products out there in this space were not built for oil and gas. So there's plenty of products out there

8:45 that do stuff. And I'm sure a lot of them are good But the guys running it don't know that it's between a

8:53 And that can be challenging, right? If you don't understand the pieces of equipment that are in the field and how it's used.

9:01 And then we built a data management sort of mesh where we can sort of map into whatever the company's production system is, you know, well-used site, you enter site,

9:12 Peloton, SAP Oracle, pull out all the data and then we can auto-populate this product we've got, which allows you to do things like, you know, report to the EPA with a lot more simplicity.

9:23 We also then have that field development side of forecasting. And today, you know, when oil and gas companies forecast emissions, it's something like this. I say, like, you know, last year I

9:35 had 50, 000 barrel a day production and I had 100, 000 measure ton of emission. Well, this year, I'm going to have 60, 000 barrel a day production. So it's going to be 120, 000 measure ton of

9:48 emission. And maybe that's right and maybe it's not, but it doesn't. you any tangible way that you can make decisions to reduce your carbon intensity or your methane intensity or your methane

9:59 footprint, your carbon footprint, whatever.

10:02 What we focused on was helping companies to say going to a really granular level. So think like facility like well pad or single well battery or even to the component level if they're so inclined and

10:13 be able to say things like you know what if I took a hundred pneumatics and I went from low bleed devices to high bleed devices or I went from high bleed to no bleed. What does that do to my my

10:29 emissions? What if I electrify my fleet? Look I know that my CO2 is coming from my flare stack and I know that my methane is coming from my pneumatics my combustion equipment but what combustion

10:39 equipment

10:42 which flare stacks

10:44 so this so this isn't just oh I'm gonna just quantify quantify exactly what my missions are. This is more like modeling to say if I do this, this is the outcome from that so that you can accurately

10:58 project what your missions are going to be. That is exactly right. So we look at things like, what if I drill a hundred new wells? What does that do? What if I buy an asset? What if I divest an

11:09 asset? So if you're in - It was a big consideration on the MI side, no. Right, that's exactly right. So if you're at a big PE shop and you're thinking

11:16 about multiple different plays that you could invest in, maybe you're gonna look at the one in the Utica instead of the Bakken because the Utica has a lot less emissions. Maybe you're not. I mean,

11:25 the economics have to work out. And that goes back to the underlying sort of thesis around Takias, which is everything we do is focused on the economics and helping companies to make profitable

11:36 decisions. I mean, that we want companies to maximize profits because we believe that the only way that we're actually gonna see this, you know, impact from, you know, reducing emissions, et

11:48 cetera, is by making profitable decisions. Look, again, maybe

11:53 everybody likes a pie in the sky, right? And it'd be great if cold fusion comes tomorrow and everything goes away. I just, I don't see it. So what can we do in the meantime to have a real impact?

12:04 And so, you know, the other cool thing I would say is that

12:10 our flagship products, we call Accion, which again is water flood and steam flood and CO2 flood.

12:20 It's a complicated thing. I mean, you need to be a reservoir, really, engineer or have years of experience with reservoir models and simulators to understand data physics and really get into it.

12:31 And, you know, Dr. Sarma created this thing and frankly, he's a lot smarter than me. I came up through the oil and gas industry, I spent years at Schlumberger, sorry, SLB and then Enbridge So

12:43 I've got almost 20 years in the industry. A lot of that time was spent in the field. I understand what's going on at the subsurface. I still am not one of the people who's running this tool.

12:55 However, on the greenhouse gas side, even little old me can figure out how to run it. And I think that's a cool thing, right? We've built something that's usable for anybody. You know, you

13:04 don't need to be a super smart engineer. Which is great 'cause I'm not a super smart engineer, right? So it's great. So I know that that's obviously one of the hottest topics right now. And you

13:15 know, I've had a lot of conversations with the MPs recently that are focused on that. And they're really trying to wrap their heads around this space, right? There's just a lot of new things that

13:24 are popping up. Tools like you guys, there's also like third party, you know, certifications and ratings. And then you look at the actual technology like in the field from detection to

13:38 quantification to what you're doing with forecasting, it's a lot. you know, it's a lot to really kind of feel like, how do you build like your emissions tech stack, right?

13:50 So with y'all, so imagine, like say, I'm an EP, quarterly operating, and I'm using this. Is it,

13:59 how much work goes into like setting that up? 'Cause I feel like you're having to, 'cause you're talking about individual devices and pieces of equipment and stuff at every individual site. So like,

14:09 is it a crazy kind of like onboarding process? No, that's a great question No, no, it's a great question, the one that we deal with generally. So a bit of a longer answer to a short question is,

14:22 one of the biggest challenges that any software company in any industry has is getting the data and getting access to the data. And

14:31 oftentimes the challenge is that the data is just not easily accessible. It's not just all one Excel file somewhere, right? It's gonna be in multiple business systems. It's gonna be on an Excel

14:42 file laptop and Lafayette, Louisiana, and like, how do you, somebody's brain, like, how do you get to all that?

14:50 What I can tell you, we've got clients that are, you know, smaller operators, we've got midsize operators, and we've got, you know, multi-billion dollar ENPs that are using this platform.

15:02 Nobody's got pristine data. Nobody. I can confirm that. Yeah, so that's the first fear that we run into with people. It's like, well, you know, I'm not sure our data is good enough yet for

15:13 this, and it's a totally valid concern. Absolutely. And what we say is, look, you're right, you probably don't have great data, but there's a couple of things. First of all, we've gotten

15:24 pretty good at this because we've built everything out on the same stack that we use on the reservoir simulation side or the reservoir of the data physics side. Keep in mind that like, that's a lot

15:34 more data. You're talking about five, 10, 15, 50 years worth of production history that we run through these simulators, right, to build these models out So it's really, really. good at data

15:44 management and optimization. That's our core business. We've been doing it for a decade. That's what we use the machine learning, the artificial intelligence to do. We honor the physics, we use

15:54 machine learning. That's what we do on the red support side. On the greenhouse gas side, we take that same expertise and the same machine learning models that we built. And we figured out a way to

16:05 get to the customer data. So to answer your question, it's not an overnight sensation. We don't just turn it on But we've got a client, I think one of our more recent ones, we did about 4, 000

16:16 facilities in about eight weeks. So we figured out a way to get it done, but that goes back to that proprietary data mesh we built. It takes, we will go sit down in the client's office and we go

16:29 and say, Hey, let's map this out. The cool thing is, it's not as if we say to the client, Hey, here's an Excel file we need you to populate this. 'Cause that's just a pain in the neck. Nobody

16:39 wants to do that Instead, we say, listen, we understand that you probably have your data. five or six different business systems. However, it flows, send it to us, we'll clean it up. We

16:50 understand, we can team a guys that are data scientists that really understand this, that got in good at it. And no matter how it comes in, in whatever disparate form, we'll set it up, connect

17:02 it, and then bond your uncle, Tandy's your aunt. And then you're actually able to get your emissions on demand. And so like we can either connect directly to your business system or if some IT

17:10 tyrant says that's never going to happen, then guess what? We can use a third party FTP and at least from our experience, that's generally okay. And we've got, you know, we're type two, sock

17:19 two compliance and all those fancy things. How are they tracking or getting the data on a mission specifically today, right? So regardless of wherever it's living, where, like, where's the

17:30 original source for that that you guys are seeing on these companies? So most of them use consultants. Okay. So the EPA reporting deadline in the US. is March 31st. And so what happens is come

17:41 January the higher consulting. They'll pay the guy, I don't know, 90 or between 15 and 500 grand depending on the size of the company. And the consultant will spend three months going around and

17:53 tracking, you know, the pneumatics and the flare stacks. And the EPA has emission factors that they've assigned to pieces of equipment. So, you know, your run hours on a compressor or the amount

18:02 of flaring that you did. And they say, Okay, well, if you ran it for this period of time, your emissions was X. Or if you flared this amount, your emissions was Y And everybody, including the

18:12 EPA, knows that that isn't right. But, frankly, it's a fair way of doing it because it, you know, levels the playing field and it makes some level of reporting possible. Now, the EPA is

18:23 actually somewhat, this is, you know, I would say that the emission factors they've established are good enough for government. But in what is not normal government here is that they've said, If

18:34 you've got different emission factors, you can use your own so long as you explain them In some companies do, they come up with their own emission factors because they say, Look. EPA doesn't

18:42 differentiate between a pneumatic that's 10 years old with no maintenance on it versus what I bought yesterday. And that's certainly as a different emissions profile. So they start coming up with

18:52 their own. Or you've got some really cool companies out there that are doing continuous monitoring. I'm sure you know, a project canary comes to mind where they've got continuous monitoring on

19:03 location, et cetera. What's cool about Orion is, and I know the word is a bit played out. I understand that in software space Orion is? No, no, the word platform or the same thing. Oh,

19:12 platform. No, Orion's not. At least I hope not. But the word platform is, and we really did though build a platform. And so far as, by that I mean, we're agnostic. If you want to use the EPA

19:26 mission factors, that's the default. But if you're overseas, you don't care about the EPA or maybe that's too strong. You may not want the EPA, maybe you want the API compendium, which we also

19:36 have in there. Or maybe you've got your own emission factors. You've got a custom model set up pull in your own emission factors. Or if you've got continuous monitoring on location, whether that's

19:44 a canary or a bridger or some other company, all that data can come in, and then you can visualize it, model it. You can export all of it very easily, 'cause it's all in an open data layer to a

19:54 Power BI or a Spotify or a Tableau, even Excel, whatever you've got. So it makes it way easier from the data side. We'll spend, you know, anywhere between two weeks to maybe two to three months

20:09 doing all of the implementation we do it, we don't throw it onto the company. And then from there, it's set. And once it's set, companies can get their data as often as they want. And so the

20:20 data will generally come at that point from a production system to go back to your question of where it comes from today. The consultant will go around and collect it oftentimes by doing physical

20:28 counts of equipment, looking at production, et cetera, et cetera. It's wild to me that that's like all done by consultants. I mean, it makes sense, but it's like, it's wild to me. That's 80

20:36 plus percent of EMPs are using consultants. That's crazy.

20:40 You know, again, if you're being completely candid about the whole thing,

20:45 as we sit here today on, what's the date that I don't even know. I don't know, 25th, I think. Yeah, the 25th. I gotta write, let's try the 25th of August in 2023. You know, there isn't a

20:58 carbon tax in the majority of the United States. Like California, I will stand. You know, methane's coming, but it's not here today. You've had to report though to the EPA for some time Well,

21:08 what's the easiest way to get this done? Like without dedicating, you know, full-time equivalent to doing this or hiring somebody, you can pay a third party to do it. And that makes sense, you

21:20 know? And so what we've done though is what we started to see are companies that somewhere ahead of the curve, some simply wanted a software solution instead of hiring and sold. Right, like I said,

21:31 we got TurboTax there. But some were slightly ahead of the curve as well and thinking about things like, Well, there's a methane tax coming out of the corner. we know it's coming, you know? The

21:42 administration said, this is what it's gonna be.

21:46 We need to think about, as we make decisions, what does that look like? And what you're able to do with Orianna, sort of model out your 2023 emissions versus the 2024 proposed rule changes. I

21:60 mean, we even took the SEC stuff that was supposed to come out last October, and we'll be out this October, allegedly, and we productized it We went through the whole 400 page document, and I

22:11 don't have any clients using it because it doesn't technically exist yet, but it's there because it's coming around the corner. You're the same thing for the IRA and the implications for AMPs? Yeah,

22:20 everything. So we've thought through all this and tried to make it as easy as possible for AMPs or majors or just mom-and-pop service companies. We actually have some midstream operators We've got,

22:37 we actually have a construction company. We built it for the oil and gas industry, but the construction company was like, Hey, I can use this from a marketing perspective. So it's pretty cool and

22:48 it's done well. And as far as like, from a sales cycle goes, it's a lot faster. You know, the reservoir product is really impressive in what its capabilities are.

23:02 But it takes a long time to meet with engineers and go through it, and you know, reservoir engineers are notoriously complicated people to sell into, because they're really, really smart, and

23:14 they want to spend a lot of time understanding every in-out and what have you on any product they're looking at, which makes sense. Especially when you're talking about, you know, an asset that's

23:25 worth oftentimes hundreds of millions of dollars that they're gonna start making adjustments to in the field. You know, if you're gonna run a slick line unit out there to change the valve, like,

23:33 you want to make sure you're doing the right thing And so it makes sense on the greenhouse gas side though. First of all, the price point is so much lower. It's oftentimes right with it. We don't

23:44 really have budgetary issues with it. We've tried to put it at a place that, you know. Just makes sense. Easy to end. Makes sense. Easy. You're not stopping. Not the first thing that gets cut

23:53 whenever they have budget cuts. Oh, and again, maybe being overly, you know, I am the head of sales, but I'm not a very good sales guy 'cause I came up through finance if that tells me anything.

24:03 But, you know,

24:06 our secret sauce, if you will, is just to get into the workflow. The product works well. We've gotten really positive feedback on it. We've been doing it now for several years. The only clients

24:19 we no longer have, ones that, you know, sure, or whatever you want to call them, are ones that got bought by bigger companies. And those companies we're trying to talk to, you know, it's tough

24:29 to get into some of the biggest companies in the world. So, you know, it's always good when clients don't fire you. That's generally a positive when they - Yeah, that's simply a good positive.

24:37 Generally a positive thing So that's how we - We've worked it so far, and you know, I mean, it's something that I think we're all really proud of because we built it from whole cloth. In fact, we

24:49 had at a conference here in Houston a few months back, I think it was May, the carbon conference. We had one of our clients, Denbury, stand up on stage and said, look, this is the product that

24:60 you only gas industry needs, which isn't shocking because they played a pretty crucial role in helping us build it out to get all the things that were necessary We spent a lot of time and money

25:11 building this product out for operators. And then hopefully as if Exxon buys them, you guys can get an Exxon and expand through there. Hey, from your lips to gods, you're gonna go. Yeah, let's,

25:21 let's, let's. I'm curious on the EOR side. So a couple of questions. Let's just kind of talk macro. What is the, what do you believe is like the TAM of like EOR operators?

25:34 Well, I think today something around 60 to 65 of world oil. still produced using some EOR methodology, which is water flood. So if you assume there's, you know, it's much higher than I expected.

25:48 Yeah, 90 something million barrels a day is your daily production. What about here in the States? Lower considerably, you still have some big ones. Chevron, oxy, conical, the place. Yeah. So

26:00 oxy is really big, which is steam floods. Yeah. Yeah, and there's steam floods out in California, Bakersfield's a big one, you've got Imperial up in Canada with Exxon. But conical is, you know,

26:12 we put out a press release with them a little under a year ago, they're a large client of ours, and they've got, they've got some really big water floods, and they've got some some wags and water

26:22 alternate gas as well here in the US. I mean, the US you hear a lot about frack, right? Particularly, you know, shale. And so, you know, you don't, you're not generally going to use a water

26:36 flood in shale, and water flood don't work for Yeah,

26:41 but globally and most of our revenue on the ER side does come from outside the United States as a result, even if the company is based here, their asset may be outside the United States. It's still

26:53 significant. We've got a fair bit of revenue coming from the Middle East and Latin America.

26:58 In fact, we put on an SPE paper, one of our

27:02 coolest success stories.

27:05 There's a company called Pan-American Energy out of Argentina. It's a BP joint venture with an Argentine company. And they saw a 15 increase in both production and reserves. So if you think about

27:18 that for a moment, this is a software solution. Their ROI was the equivalent of drilling multiple wells just by using software. And if you're showing that the reserves have more than what you had

27:36 originally anticipated from one the company valuation goes up, your borrowing capacity for - Massive. There's a lot of implications for that. You know, and in Frank, granted, this was a really

27:45 complicated field. You're talking like, you know, maybe something layers or something like that. I don't remember exactly. It's all in the SPE paper, but, you know, doing the sweep that we

27:53 were able to do with the water flood, it showed, wow, this is oil that we didn't think was accessible. That actually is accessible. So it's from coverable reserve. And it increased. So that was

28:03 really cool. So we've published a bunch of papers

28:08 Overall, Tam, you'll catch me lying here. I want to say that when these guys

28:18 pitched the company 10 years ago, it was something like 200 billion that was still accessible for water flood. It's a lot. It's a big number.

28:30 You know, I would gladly take, you know, 1 of that. I don't think I'd be thrilled to go pick.

28:39 Yeah, absolutely. I think EORs, I think there's gonna be a lot of people refocusing on that as, I've talked about this a billion times, people have probably tired hearing this, but you know,

28:47 we're not discovering a new Permian, you know, let's say it's anytime soon. And so, you know, with that, but then also on the equation side with like refracts and stuff, like it's getting more

28:58 out of what we've already drilled. So, I think that's a really, really important concept for people to sort of, to wrap their heads around because no, you're certainly not gonna go discover a new

29:11 permit, I mean, I don't believe. But

29:17 also, there's an enormous amount of cost that goes into drilling and risk and risk. It's exactly right. And there's, you know,

29:29 a lot less cost in risk in getting more out of what you've already got. I mean, you know, one of the old sayings our industry is, you know, what's the best place. find oil, or you've already

29:40 found oil. So, you know, like one of the products that one of the things that Accion does is it helps with the infill drilling. You know, like where's the next hole you should poke in the ground?

29:50 We'll tell you that. You know, the technology allows you to use the data physics to really understand the reservoir in ways that today, I think classic, you know, simulators, numerical

30:02 streamline, whatever, don't do

30:06 And I also think that when it comes to just the sheer size of the industry

30:17 and the amount of existing oil fields,

30:22 sure, you can go and

30:26 spend millions of dollars on licenses for classic simulators from the likes of SLB, your CMG, Landmarket Halibur, whatever. That makes sense, especially if you're going to drill, you know, a

30:41 couple hundred million bucks, you know, pop a couple of holes in the golf. Like, I do want to have a 40 model in it, you know? If you got a field that's been producing for 40 years, you need to

30:53 spend a year with millions of dollars on a reservoir simulator? I don't think so. You just made me have a question that I've never really thought about before. Does EOR exist offshore? Sure,

31:05 absolutely We've got - Tell me more. I've never thought about that before. Yeah, no, I mean, one of our most successful projects right now are offshore. We're operating in the largest offshore

31:17 field in China. Okay. And we had really, really good success there. The, our technology, you know, again, being, to be frank, is best suited when there are more wells, not less. So the

31:32 challenge with a technology like ours, Offshore would be, let's say you've got, you know. three wells off the platform and one injector, well, there's not a whole lot to optimize. I mean, the

31:43 best way to describe it would be to think about, I'm trying to think of a good analogy here. Okay. So let's see, you've got a 10 story building. Okay. And you say, how many people in the

31:56 building? Actually, well, there's a thousand. And you say, okay, well, thousand people, how many of them are women?

32:05 400. Okay. Well, how many of those 400 women are managers? 200.

32:11 How many of those women managers are on the third floor? 10. How many of the women managers on the third floor are above the age of 65? Two. Okay. Well, you've narrowed it down to a point where

32:24 there's so many constraints on what we're trying to do that there's only so much we can do. You only have what what our technology does is it allows us to sit there and look at all the different

32:34 wells and how they communicate with one another and, you know, make recommendations, or you use the technology yourself, you'll be able to run simulations or run different scenarios, a better

32:47 word, to say what happens if you change injection rates here or shut off this injector there, et cetera, et cetera. Well, if you only have one injector, two injectors, there's 20 total wells.

32:58 There's just so many constraints on it that we can't do much. Whereas if it's a field that's got a lot more wells, we can do more. So that's the one area that least as it relates to our technology

33:08 offshore that becomes a challenge. If it's a field that doesn't have a lot of wells in it. Now there's some huge fields offshore with tons of wells, and then we're very successful. Yeah, that's

33:19 wild to think about. Yeah, I think offshore is absolutely fascinating to me. I just think, I mean, you're just talking about, I mean, it's big money, it's big volumes of production. Yeah,

33:31 you've got some companies that are very substantial in terms of like evaluation and production numbers with a very small. number of wells. Yes. Like we're talking like 12 wells, but these are 12

33:42 wells produce a shit ton. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean, there are some extremely prolific oil fields that have a very small number of wells offshore. I mean, you know, some of these things

33:54 will produce massive amounts of oil on the day, right? No question about

34:01 it. And that's awesome. And you know, then they should buy our oregan products and they can track their emissions That's independent of the number of wells, right? But yeah, I mean, I think on

34:09 the EOR side, offshore, onshore, as long as the - and we'll tell the client, and we'll look - we'll sit down and look at what they've got and try and make an honest assessment of, look, is our

34:23 technology right for this field? And we've told people no before, you know? Look, we had a client in the Middle East, a few years back, and say look, this is a dead oil field. we want to use

34:36 your technology to see if it's alive. We're like dead oil. We don't think it's going to be alive. And they're like, No, no, no. We want you to do it. So we debated internally, and said,

34:47 We'll try. And what was our outcome? It's a dead field. I mean, we're not magicians.

34:54 We don't claim to be. We're not one of the big changes in the company to go back where I said a few minutes ago is that we're not charismatic founders that can go, you know, sell you the moon of

35:06 the earth and the stars. We're operators. You know, we're trying to run a profitable business that delivers a product of value in a way that makes our customers happy. That's really our main focus.

35:18 And by and large, I think we're pretty successful with that. You know, I mean, at the same time, as I'm sure you know from other people you talk to and your time in the industry,

35:32 there's no guarantees in this business. I had a client say to me, weeks back, we were talking about renewing the EOR side and he says, Now, we're going to go run these suggestions. You know,

35:45 you guys came up with the recommendations, you know, change rates here, there, for CO2 flood. Can you guarantee me they'll work?

35:55 I mean, it's. There's no guarantees in this space. I was like, Come on, man, like, have you ever drilled a dry well? I mean, like, this is geology. Can I guarantee you? No, I mean, we

36:05 think it's a high probability it'll work. Yes. But what's the other nice thing about the REOR product is that it doesn't require a bunch of, you know, well logs and all the geology and all that

36:17 stuff. We could do a lot with, you know, your production history, it's a pressure data, maybe a lot long here or there, but we can do a lot with that. And I think that makes it easier for the

36:27 clients as well, because we don't need you to go and spend a week pulling data for us. That isn't how we do it. but give me an hour of your time, maybe two, if we're looking at 20 plus years,

36:41 but generally seven to 10 to 12 years is enough data on the EOR. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before we wrap up, what's the future hold for you guys? Ah, man, I mean - It's great opening any question. I

36:52 know, right? Let's see, the biggest company on the planet, I don't know. I mean, I think, like I said, we're operators. We want to keep on growing the business steadily. We want to keep on

37:01 doubling revenue on an annualized basis. And most importantly, we want to keep on giving customers what they want. I mean, as far as Oreon goes, I think we can expand beyond oil and gas and then

37:10 the TAM on Oreon by itself is, you know, by 2026, probably 10 billion.

37:17 If you ask CNBC, they would tell you three or four times that. But in my own little way, I do math. It came up to about 10. And that's just in the next three years. In the Achieon space on the

37:26 EOR side, I think it's also super, super large because most our clients were only in. either one of their fields or a part of several of their fields, and the expansion capabilities are just

37:42 massive there. And that's what we're trying to do is to continue to just, and we're being pretty successful with that by selling into a company and then selling more products to that company and

37:51 expanding. Maybe that's sort of like the old slumber's way, maybe the new SLB way, but we've taken that approach and it's been successful. I mean, I think, from a growth perspective, we're on

38:02 track, we obviously want to grow more I mean, you're doing it. Love it, man. This has been a

38:07 great conversation on the mic and then enjoyed the chat beforehand. People want to reach out. I'm assuming

38:19 takiascom. Yeah, takiascom. Get me at mattakiascom or infotakiasgov, any way you want to go. We're perfect. Love it, man. Now, this has been great to kind of catch up and learn more about,

38:26 you know, new management has come in, really a new vision for the company, but also, you know, the new products on the GG side. So, it's exciting. Well, thanks a lot for taking the time.

38:35 Absolutely, man. You guys liked the episode. Take two seconds. Leave a rating review. Share with your friends. We'll catch you guys in the next one