Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

0:00 What is going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Welling Assartors podcast. You were Britain from Texas integrity as his solutions. Wait, what's the acronym for that? Texas T I a s

0:13 T s. Yeah. Thanks in advance.

0:18 Tell me about you guys. What are you guys working on? So we kind of started out as just doing a production, acidizing deal on the production side. Um, there's just a little hole there where we're

0:28 from, college station areas, a lot of Austin chalk stuff, um, had a, had a just a hole there that needed to be filled with some good quality acidizing on the production side, cleaning up calcium

0:39 carbonate and some things like that, um, production enhancement type jobs. And, uh, so that started in the mid 22 by November of 22, uh, gotten a call from one of the local operators that, uh,

0:54 frack had kind of dropped the ball, didn't bring acid for the frack job that has like, hey, could you take care of this for us? Yeah, man, I mean, you know, there's only two of us, but yeah,

1:02 sure, we'll do what we can. So we kind of slapped together a manifold, essentially, so we can roll the tanks and get consistency in the tanks on the frack. And

1:18 got into some problems there. Fracking ended up putting a bunch of FR back into the acid tanks and it threw their hydrometers off. And so they kind of called me out there to location one day and

1:26 they were like, hey, you know, we're showing 8. I'm like, I know that tank is at least 15 and a half 'cause I'm the one that ran the numbers. I delivered the loads. Like I know what it is. So

1:39 long story short, end up having to pull a sample. He pulls his hydrometer out and I look at it and I can see it just kind of running off the hydrometer. So I reach over there and pick it up, smell

1:48 it. I'm like, dude, that's FR. This is the guy at FR in this tank Like, y'all have overpumped the last four stages because y'all pushed FR into it. ended up missing one of my daughter's deals.

2:02 So I kind of got back to the yard and talked to Greg, one of my partners in this deal, told him, I was like, dude, this is stupid. Like it's 2022. Like we can eliminate all of this as a

2:14 variable. Like there's no reason somebody should be having to stand there with a strap stick, a face shield and a respirator trying to read inches off of a strap stick that's never accurate anyway.

2:24 So that's kind of how that started to go to case of beer, wipe the job board off that we had and started writing out schematics for how to do this automated. And that's, that's where it started.

2:34 That's awesome. Okay, so for those who are listening who, and most people are probably gonna be familiar, but for those who don't understand, what is the point of acid? What are the use cases?

2:42 Like why are we using it? So the historical portion of the acid stage, which they've been pumping acid in oil and gas wells since like the '40s. They are using the acid as an initial breakover so

2:54 they can start catching rate. The problem that we've always had is we dictate what our acid percentage is based on like a lab test. So a bench test. Well, that's done under absolute perfect

3:09 conditions. And there's nothing in the oil field that's perfect. So it started dawning on me, you know, with acid being heavier than water, if those tanks are not constantly agitated, what are

3:22 you really pumping down whole? So let's just say, okay, we go out there, we blow acid off into a tank, we think we brought that tank to 15 by numbers, but how long does that sit before it starts

3:34 to phase out? So while you're asking, does it separate? Yeah, so the acid will fall out of solution to where you'll have, you know, let's 28 on the bottom and 4 on the top. So talking to some

3:48 of the engineers, you know, we could see on their historical data how the initial stages would have a drastic break over. And then as they pulled that tank down, it would get less and less and

3:59 less and less and less. So starting to talk to these engineers is like, man, you know, I think we can, I can solve this. Like this is a problem that every operator has that pumps acid. It's

4:09 just how do we implement this into the field and what benefits do we get out of it? And that's kind of where we're at now is we're starting to get all of the data back from the jobs that we've been

4:20 doing. And everybody that has used the system so far, not just from a safety aspect of it, 'cause there are no more acid vapors on location. Like I've been on fracks before at RSI that we had to

4:33 shut down entire frack jobs because the wind was blowing the wrong direction. Lime boss couldn't get in there to do anything. We had to shut the whole frack down until the winds would change or

4:41 they'd get done blowing acid off. It's like, this is dumb, like we can fix this. You know, this is 2022, 2023. So you guys actually making the acid itself or do you guys have a proprietary

4:52 process whenever the acid is sitting there, it's not separating and therefore makes the process of assuming. Yeah, so I designed to develop a process flow patent that will automatically pool raw

5:05 hydrochloric acid and water on the fly, blend to the correct requested concentration in volumes and boost that to frack for their acid stage. And it doesn't matter, rather, it's 5, 7 12, 10,

5:19 whatever number that is, up to about 20 barrels And the primary use case is acidizing during frack. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Did you guys do anything in the production space or just frack? No, so the

5:29 system would work on large scale production, acidizing jobs. But unless you're over, you know, 25, 30, 000 gallons, it's not, it's easier to run that out of a transport 'cause there's so much

5:42 logistics involved. But once you get to those types of volume, so most fracks, you know, they're running anywhere between, 1, 000 and 2, 500 gallons per stage through the course of that well.

5:51 So it may be 250, 300, 000 gallons of blended product and being able to keep these products as far as the asset is concerned in its raw form, there's no waste. So as opposed to them having to pump

6:05 heavy on the tail end, just to pull that tank low enough so they can move it, we're able to actually move that product from that pad to the next pad. So there is no waste essentially left over So

6:17 talk to me, you touched on it a little bit, but talk to me about when you do this wrong, like in the example you said, they were kind of over pressuring it, what expanded upon kind of the problem

6:27 there. So the issue when you're pumping too heavy of an acid concentration down hole, the acid is not treated for that concentration. Now that could cause extra emulsion issues down hole. You

6:42 could start eating your casing up I mean, there's, there's tens of. problems, it could happen out of that. Exactly what all of them are. I'm not a chemist. I don't know. I'm a field guy that

6:54 just kind of noticed, Hey, this is a problem that everybody has, and I think I've got a solution to fix it. So that's kind of where we're at. You know, I'm only as good as the people I rely on.

7:05 You know what I'm saying? So give me a little background on kind of your career. How'd you get to this point? Now you told me kind of immediately how you came up with the idea, but let's go back a

7:13 little bit further Yeah, so I started in oil and gas. I was actually working for Volvo construction equipment. They wanted to open up oil and gas division in that broad-college station area. You

7:25 were talking about we were in high school together. Yeah. And never really crossed each other's paths. I knew a lot of the same people, but I'd never had any exposure to oil and gas until I was

7:32 like 19 years old, I think, 18 or 19. And a buddy of mine, all of a sudden got a job as a mudlogger and then had a new truck and had a, I can see do and had like, I need to work on oil gas. Oil

7:44 and gas is where it's at. Yeah, so my family's not oil and gas background. They're all bankers and real estate guys and women.

7:54 But Volvo kind of opened the doors. So I started out actually as the mining side. So like big Hitachi 1900 EX is like massive equipment. 'Cause Brynham or Bremod has

8:07 a big mine there There's one in Franklin, one over in Causse and that was my area. Well, oil and gas was kind of tied into that mining area because that's what the mining place would do. They'd

8:18 lease out some of that land at oil and gas. And I just happened to be driving through there one day. I saw a bunch of big bulldozers. They were laying a pipeline and I was like, Hey, this could

8:27 be a potential new customer. Well, Volvo had never done the oil and gas before. So it was a completely different type of billing. Like they looked at it like if you were using piece of equipment

8:37 for eight hours. It's a day rate. Well, oil and gas is 247 anyway. So we kind of had to figure out the best way to start billing for that. So finally did, ended up kind of pulling all this in,

8:50 joined one of the local API chapters. Through that, I met some guys from Bronco at that one time and they do like hydraulic chokes and flow back and things like that, which that was a whole new

9:02 world to me. Enjoyed that, but through that, I was around my first pump truck, like actual pump truck. It was a double, and Bronco was building them in house at the time, and it's like a 2,

9:15 000 horsepower double pump. And I was like, oh, this thing's badass. Like, I'm in love, it's huge, it's loud. I have no idea what it does, but this is what I wanna do. So spent some time

9:27 there at Bronco and learned a lot, learned a lot, and my district manager at the time, his dad was the general manager of Bronco out of Elk City. Um, so they kind of were able to fast track me on,

9:41 Hey, you know, we need you to get in the field, understand how everything works. And then it's a lot easier to sell a product. Obviously if you know what that product does, and that's one thing

9:50 in oil and gas that I can say, you know, better than most industries is the people that are selling for it. You can tell the ones that really know what they're talking about and the ones that don't.

9:59 And that was something that sniff it out real quick. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it only takes four or five minutes there and you know, rather than not somebody knows what they're talking about or they

10:07 don't

10:10 got through Bronco, this would have been in late 2013 kind of got crossways with one of my customers, Matt Bronco. So they ended up terminating me off off of that deal. So I was kind of, you know,

10:25 aimlessly walking around like, Oh, shit. No, what do I do? You know, there was a frat company that was local to private college station area called RSI and I walked over there and sat down in

10:36 the office with one of the owners. And he got to talk it to him and he was like, man, I'll give you a chance. Like, you know, horsepower, you, you see Savvy's how that all goes together.

10:45 Didn't know anything about frack. And this was in 2014, you know, right when frack is boom and boom. Uh, so I start learning frack, getting all of that under my belt, understanding, acidizing,

10:57 start putting procedures together for, whether that's frack or it's remediation work on the acid stages and actually sitting down with engineers and getting a wellboard diagram with all the

11:09 perforations on it. Bottom hole temperatures and coming up with volumes for acid and diverting for acid and what that might look like, putting it all down on paper and then taking that out to the

11:20 field and implementing it and watching those pressure charts, like, okay, I think within the next five barrels, acid will be on these perfs. This is kind of what I'm guessing, 250, 300 pound

11:32 pressure drops. And then all of a sudden you get a 600 pound pressure drop It's like, okay, we're on the right track. Something about that just really got my gears turning like, okay, how much

11:42 larger out of scale can we make this and still increase production as a team? And I think it was a camaraderie as a team that made it more fun.

11:53 And then from there, we sold RSI to Keen Group, which is now next year at the time. They offered me a similar position at Keen that I had at RSI, but they wanted me out in West Texas And there was

12:08 no way that I was going to move my family to West Texas, that was not an option. And I don't really have the mentality of being able to work for a large company like that. I'm not as politically

12:18 correct as what you really need to be to excel in that type of environment. You and I both. So, kind of went through a couple of phases there. Got some partners on another deal right after RSI

12:33 sold. That would have been mid 2018.

12:37 Didn't really, legality reasons can't really go into, didn't get along with those partners, there were some things that I didn't like. So I actually got reached out by a company that I was leasing

12:48 some frack pumps from called WebTecs. And the owner of that company had some unfortunate things happened and his sister ended up taking over and she didn't come from an oil and gas background. So

12:59 she was like, hey, would you mind coming out and selling this, you know, these frack pumps are leasing these frack pumps for us to other people I was like, I mean, these are, you know, these

13:07 are guys that I've competed with for the last 10 years. Like I don't know if that's a good move for you 'cause I don't know if they'll even talk to me essentially 'cause we've literally been bidding

13:16 against each other for 10 years. But I took it and that was a great deal. I learned a lot on the manufacturing side like how the actual pumps go from raw parts to being put together to make a frack

13:31 pump which was something I was never a part of because I was come from the service company side. Anyway, got to meet a lot of really cool people on that. And it's kind of where it's brought me to

13:42 where I'm at today, just knowing, okay, I can call this vendor for this style. I can call this vendor to have it all put together. I know these electronics guys, it just putting all of that

13:54 together. So I almost feel like it was almost fate. Like as you go through it and look, it's like, man, I don't know if I'm just out here on blind faith, or if this is all happening for a reason

14:07 or what, but that's kind of where we're at now. What are you most excited about? Changing how we look at the acid stage. So the biggest problem I always had is now that we're so big into the data

14:23 analytics side up.

14:26 We can do FRAC models, but those models are only as good as the information that we put into them So if we're saying, okay, our acid stage is 15. and you're really pumping 28, how is that model

14:41 accurate at all? You can't, it can't be. And you know, I've talked to several engineers, like even before I had this thing built, like I was sending out thousands of emails, just cold call

14:54 emails. And as it started, like I'd send 300, I might get one or two responses. What were you emailing was like, Hey, is this a shit idea? Would you buy this? Like what you're feeling? Hey,

15:06 this is what I'm building. This is the benefits that I think are going to be given as far as this system is concerned. What is your feedback? How do you feel about it as far as its implementation?

15:20 Like is this something worthwhile or literally am I on the wrong track? And did you start that before you actually technically started building? No, no, we were already on the road. We were

15:29 already on the road, dude So this, we started doing these drawings in December of '22. I was testing the unit November of 23. And I mean, this one I'll tell you, it was blind-faced. Like, I

15:43 don't know if this thing's gonna work. Nobody's done it. And that part was what really scared me. Like, 'cause when you've got a Halliburton slumber's day, like, liberties, you've got all these

15:54 really big companies that them spending, you know, a couple million dollars on RD is no big deal. Like, they don't even notice. But me, it's like, oh, like, we roll in the dice Yeah. And

16:06 let's see if it works. So how is data analytics kind of changing the game? And yes, especially. So because we know for a fact that this volume, let's just say it's 2, 000 gallons of 10, 10, we

16:19 know from a bench test in perfect conditions, we'll get X amount of dissolution rate, whether that's limestone or shale or whatever that is. So we have a baseline, but we don't know exactly what

16:31 that means down whole because it's not clean like it is on surface. So giving us the ability to change that 10 to, you know, let's say eight and a quarter, or seven and a half, or maybe it's all

16:45 wrong, maybe really what we need to be doing is five percent or six and a half. We never had the ability to do that. So this gives us that ability to say, okay, we know now, 2000 gallons of five

16:58 percent down hole in a real world situation will give us X amount of break over Not that every single well bore is the exact same because they're not. But they're close enough related that we can say,

17:13 okay, that five percent does let's just say it's a 250 pound break over. Okay, we jumped to seven and a half percent and we get a 600 pound break over jumped to 10 and now we're at 1500 to 2000.

17:25 Okay, so where's that happy medium where we can actually start grabbing rate to start putting dirt in the ground

17:33 We're figuring it out, and that's what really excites me. Is nobody else in the asset space kind of using it in Linux? Or is this kind of becoming more of the. No, there's nobody out there that

17:43 does it. I mean, that was the other side is like, maybe we're not onto something if nobody else is doing this, you know? And I've gotten mixed feedback. Like for engineers, like really good

17:54 friends of mine that I've known forever, you know? And I'm pitching this idea to them before, you know, while I'm still in design phase. And, you know, a couple of them are like, well, I mean,

18:05 we get billed for the right amount. You know, we know that it's not consistent and we're not getting the consistent that you're saying, but we're getting billed for the right amount. So, you know,

18:15 who cares? I'm like, okay, well, that's not the engineer that I'm gonna be able to target that matter. But the exons, the auxies, those guys that really dive deep into their analytics and their

18:28 data to want to come up with a better frack program, Those are the guys that care about that type of stuff. on top of the safety. It's, I imagine, if I was starting an EMP, I would want to,

18:42 'cause you're mentioning, this is a broader, I kind of issue, and I think that we've seen this with digital walk headers is that a lot of the people who spend the time to either listen to the show

18:51 or come to the events, like I would kind of categorize them as a little bit maybe of overachievers, right? They're spending extra curricular time that's going to hopefully advance their career,

19:01 right? And you've got everybody else who's like, they're not social, they're not consuming stuff Maybe they're so educating themselves, but they're not like really putting in the extra time,

19:08 going the extra mile. I would want to build a company that incentivized everybody at that company to perform the smallest of just having attention to detail to the littlest things and making sure

19:21 that they are incentivized to always do that thing. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I mean, just to expand your knowledge base, I mean, just that part alone, I just hate that whole, oh, it's good

19:33 enough mentality. Yeah, no, I loathe that. And granted, one of them, the one that was the worst on it, he's one of my best friends, like talked to the dude all the time. So you've also got

19:43 that, you know. He's probably going to listen. You can tell me to go fuck himself. Oh, yeah, no, 100 you know. What's up, Will?

19:50 The reality is, is he does get it when we actually get into a serious conversation about it. He's like, yes, I mean, I do see what you're doing. And yes, that does make sense for the companies

20:00 that really want to implement that type of system. But also a lot of that, too, is a new technology. And I would be the same way, if I were an engineer looking at a startup, essentially, and

20:13 saying, okay, well, you did this, but why has Halliburton not done this? Or why has ProFrak or Liberty or whoever, you know, that is slumber jay since we've been doing this since the '40s? And

20:26 the only,

20:30 The only thing I can really come up with as why that system's never been implemented into the field, 'cause the technology's been there, is only because it's honest, it does not lie. So, and I'd

20:43 be lying if I said, I wasn't guilty of it at RSI, oopsies happen in the field, and you pull a tank down a little bit more than what you should have. Oh, we'll just cut the water on and bring that

20:55 tank back up to the right level, not really add the acid into it, and nobody's the wiser. That happens all the time. So I haven't figured out yet if it's a lack of communication between the field

21:10 and the engineers themselves, or if it's just a lack of understanding what the importance is of that acid stage. I'll say from all the pump schedules I've ever looked at, the majority of them are

21:21 almost cookie cutter, as far as the acid is concerned. And it's usually there's seven and a half or seven and a half percent or it's 15 percent, depending on what formation you're in or what area.

21:32 And I think that's not because anybody's ever tried to do something different because of course, if you screen well out, you know, now you're in trouble, for sure. But

21:46 there's no other way to learn, like we have to know, not to mention the cost savings that you have on them. So you've been pumping 15, but if that well only needs 10, you've been over pumping by

21:57 5 each stage. You extrapolate that over the course of the year and you're talking about five, six, 700, 000 and added costs that did not need to be there to the AFE. And it was just kind of

22:11 trying to put all of these things together and say, hey, here's a safer solution that is accurate, it's consistently better and you don't have waste. So we don't have to have as many trucks coming

22:23 in or out of locations That's less hazards, less accidents.

22:28 I mean, it's all the way around a better system. I would think, you know. So when you're actually building and like designing this system, like walk me through that process, I'm assuming you

22:38 probably never built or designed anything before in your life. You're like, all right, well, I just gotta figure it out. So are you just, I don't want me through it. I mean, is it, how'd you

22:47 go about actually, like, are you manufacturing stuff? Are you just finding pieces and kind of cobbling them together? Like, walk me through that. Yeah, so I have enough experience in the field

22:56 and I've got some really good guys that work for me or with me, I guess, is probably a better way to put that. And we all have our strong points, like, I know that I'm not the most mechanically

23:08 inclined guy, but I have that guy that is the most mechanically inclined guy. So we all get together and it's like, all right, man, I'm not gonna come up with the best idea. You're not gonna

23:19 come up with the best idea, but if we take pieces of everybody's idea, and that's essentially what the whiteboard was, multiple minds sitting around saying, okay, we need to be able to pump it at

23:29 this rate in order to keep frack from capitating. Okay, so we now know what our horsepower size is that we need to have. We know how much flow we need to get. We need to figure out how we can

23:40 automate the valves to be able to dose that in the correct values. So pharmaceuticals, mining applications, food, nuclear power plants, all of these industries use hydrochloric acid They're the

23:53 largest users of hydrochloric acid, and they all have to be super accurate. Why is it in the oil field that, you know, essentially 3 to 5 of on frack is an acceptable margin of error. That seems

24:09 kind of large, you know? Yeah, I assume there's like a 3 to 5 margin of error on like the fuel supply to like the jets you're flying around. Yeah, seriously, seriously. You know, the Boeing

24:20 case on your hands. Yeah, I remember, I remember at one point of time, we were saying, okay, a 10 margin of error is good. And I'm thinking like, oh, that's wonderful. So fast forward to

24:31 testing phase, right? So we get to testing phase and we get this deal rolling. We came out out of the gates at a 2 to 3 off. And I was running around high five and everybody like super pumped,

24:48 super pumped. I get over to the programmer and he got from Germany And, you know, I'm trying to give him high fives and hugs and he's just looking at me like, what are you doing? I was like,

25:01 dude, we're in it. Like this is, this is gonna work. He's like, oh, no, no, he's up. We get it better. Like, what do you mean we get it better? I'll be damned, dude. By the end of that

25:10 three day period, we had that thing down to a 025 margin of error at, you know, 420 to 480 gallons a minute. I mean, which it's huge. So do you have, do you have like this, Is it a. I don't

25:23 know, is it some sort of like, is it a compressor of some sort type, or is it like a - So it's actually pushing the volume. So it's centrifugal pumps designed for the application that they're in.

25:37 The problem is, is those types of volumes, a lot of those pieces are having to be custom made to withstand that raw hydrochloric continuous volume at that rate and still be accurate. I'll tell you,

25:54 there's a whole lot of metals that I've never even heard of before, that are, that I've found out through the hard way by trying, you know, has to alloys and titaniums and all this other nonsense

26:07 until we finally found one that, hey, this is accurate, this does work. We can do this to where we're not having to replace it every, you know, couple of days, essentially

26:19 but on the flip side of that too, you know, it makes it. that makes that learning curve further and further out because we go, well, we need to try this. And a lot of it is, it's trial and

26:29 error. Nobody's ever done it and maybe this is why because it's a lot to try and figure out as you're going. Got a really good customer right now that Savvy's what we're trying to do. They believe

26:42 in the product as far as they want to be able to make the best pump schedules that they can to make the best wells that they can So they've kind of allowed us to have a backup plan in case we do have

26:56 some type of issue. We have a backup plan to keep them up and running. But so far, I mean, we've had very little issues, but it's

27:04 been a long road from essentially testing to getting into - What was like the single biggest challenge or if you've got a story of just something that totally just went sideways? The single biggest

27:15 challenge is because the unit is mobile and most of the other sectors that need accuracy or want accuracy? Or not mobile. They're not mobile, yeah. So going through that, you know, to the point

27:29 where I'm working directly with valve manufacturers to say, hey, these are the failures that we're seeing. These are the problems. This is why we think it may be happening at this temperature or

27:42 at this flow rate or, you know, at this pressure.

27:47 That's really kind of where, that's the most difficult part of it, is maintaining those relationships where you have a working relationship back and forth. And we're not a very big company by any

28:02 means. So it's not like we're a Halliburton. It's like, hey, you know, if we work this out, you know, we'll have a hundred and a thousand of these things or whatever. You know, it's like,

28:13 hey, you know, we need to figure one out because I'm not gonna implement more into the field until we have a perfect product I want to learn everything. Now, before we start moving forward and

28:25 forward,

28:27 that's the biggest issues I've seen so far. It's just trying to figure out what products are best for this application. So where are you guys currently deployed at? Is it still mostly in the

28:38 causation area? Are you guys out in the men? No, so we home-based out of college station. We're opening a yard up at Pecos. Most of our work has been up there. We were at South Texas for EOG.

28:50 That's the first place that the unit went, but they had cut their acid back to a point where it no longer justified the use to have a big system like that out there. So we moved it out to the West

29:01 Texas area. Gotcha. And that's where it's been, it's jumping pad to pad to pad to pad. Is there a certain area where it's been more successful than others? No, I mean, so the system doesn't

29:10 care. You know, there was some talk at one point in time about running up to the Ohio area for EOG. And I don't know Yeah, I mean, I, you know, Pennsylvania's. One of my mentors was up there

29:24 in Pennsylvania, Mark Marmo, a deep well, great, great dude.

29:29 I talk to him a lot, but that was just too far for me to really work out the kinks that need to be worked out of it. I mean, it's a new technology. So no matter what technology it is, you're

29:42 going to have problems So it's maintained out there in West Texas since

29:49 January, Marchish, yeah, and it's literally just about to pad, pad, pad, pad, pad, pad, and we're rolling. So what's next, man? What's the next big move for you guys? So we've got a new

30:04 customer that they're putting on two more units. I've kind of found that the larger guys, they take a really long time, which we talked with good guys at Exxon, and they were like, Man, it's

30:17 going to take us every bit of 10 months, 11 months before we can even implement. something new like this. And then we'll have to go through our field trials, which is fine. So we've got some more

30:29 units being built and they'll go out to West Texas as well. Let's just keep going, keep trucking. Yeah, I love it, man. This has been a fun time. I've enjoyed our conversation talking about

30:40 going down memory lane, turns out you're related to how people I grew up with. No, this has been a fun man. We gotta get you back on in the future and hear more about the future development, but

30:50 now good luck with everything and work people go if they want to find a more information, what's website? LinkedIn, Texas Integrity Acid Solutions. It's also Texas Integrity Acid Solutionscom.

31:00 Got a website there, all the contact information's there. Cool. Awesome man, dude, thanks for coming. Yeah, man, appreciate it. Hi guys, take two seconds. Since you're friends, reach out

31:11 to these guys if you have one more information and we'll catch you guys on the next episode.