Oil and Gas Startups Podcast

0:00 Dude, they sold my, they sold my cage. You heard that story. I bought this cage. Yeah, I bought one. I remember that was the plan. Dude, I bought a fucking cage to go in the office. I

0:10 remember seeing something by the way, who said they sold it. Like somebody was holding for you. Yeah. So what happened was I bought it, I bought it in 2020. The CSC gym was going out of business

0:20 in Austin.

0:22 And he's a dude, he's saying you have it for four grand. But that's about today. And so I went and got a U-Haul drove over to Austin, broke this cage down And then bought it and then, yeah, I

0:32 kept it in storage for like two and a half years. So my cost of ownership was just like through the roof on this thing and150 a month. And I get a text one day. That's like, we're sad to see you

0:43 go. Thank you for being a customer. I'm like, what the fuck's that about? And then liquid data, my unit. I was like, it's the word worst. I was like, yeah, it's for my fucking cage. Hey,

0:51 were you not paying your bill or something? No, they said there was a problem with my payments. My fucking company card that like that had it for two fucking years. And Anyways, yeah, I was like

1:03 and then I start reading these agreements on these storage units and they are a fucking drift like it is crazy Like they can pretty much sell your shit and nothing there's nothing that you do about it.

1:13 So anyways, yeah So I maybe you'll see it on storage wars

1:19 So a lot of like a lot of cages now They have pin systems that you just like take the pins up this one had Bolts and it had like 200 bolts and so it took me and Jake seven hours with two impact

1:30 rinches to take this thing apart And you never put together. Yeah, and we had a schematic that we drew of how to get it back together Whoever bought that cage doesn't have that schematic That's like

1:42 honestly like you'd probably have to like just talk about how to pay someone to take that, you know It's one of the UCPI cages like it's like no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was 30-foot cage is on a

1:52 platform So it was raised up. Who's sick? Yeah, and the plan was we're gonna get a warehouse office and put it in the office and now that we're like growing. I got some mats, if you want them,

2:03 I'll give them. You got some mats? I got some mats in my house too. I got some toll-by-tolls. Are you gonna like stick 'em together? Me and Jacob talk about that, it's like making - Yeah,

2:11 I'd say, okay, I guess we'll get this podcast started.

2:15 Shoot the shit, just like we were doing. Like people, I don't know, I'll probably cut in this conversation about the octagon so people can hear what the status is of our case It's

2:29 a pretty base trifecta of things, right?

2:34 Anyway, so we got a good episode today. Got Alex Squared. We got the Alex's from Bertisse oil tools on the show today. Funny, Alex, known you for years now. Came to some of our early happy

2:49 hours, known y'all in LinkedIn, and then Alex, how did we get linked up again? I think they're Jason. Yeah, they're Jason. That's yeah, yeah, that's right. And, uh, yeah, Alex invested in

3:01 has an angel investor in our rounds. So, you know, part of the friends, family and fools. He was one of the fools. So, okay, being a fool. It also changed your due to with me, uh, at

3:11 revolution. Dojo and Houston. So, uh, real quick, you know, to, to just give people some context of who vertices. What is vertices? What do you guys do? Yeah. You want me to take that one?

3:25 Yeah, you can take that Travel a deeper. Um, so we started in 2018, uh, as a completions company, originally targeting sliding sleeves. So our founder, Mohammed Saraya, completions guru had,

3:38 um, an interesting idea to design this limitless sliding sleeve. Um, you kind of saw what happened with sleeves in Canada. NCS was blowing and going. They went public, I think in 2017, uh,

3:51 with their sleeve and their intention was to come down to the lower 48 and just dominate Yeah, he said that. That was multi-stage. That was NCS. Okay. I think they were like a billion dollar

4:01 market cap. Yeah. At one time. Yeah. And so we had this idea, our Muhammad had this idea to commercialize a limitless sleeve design, which basically sliding sleeve that you could run without

4:13 coil tubing or without any type of intervention. Yeah. And so limitless meaning you could drop a single ball and activate multiple sleeves and you don't have to worry about adjusting the ball size

4:24 and ball seats So it's really novel technology. We got it probably qualified in probably mid 2018, just shortly after we picked up our initial investor, which was SCF partners through their

4:41 ventures fund that I think that closed in February of 2018. I was the number two employee, came along as a CFO. Yeah. Creator, HR, legal, like kind of doing all kinds of stuff. You know what

4:56 it's like running a startup. Yeah, for sure. You do all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Cleaning toilets and stuff. Yeah, CSO, but you're good stuff. Yeah, picking up slack everywhere else. Yeah,

5:04 he's all right to you guys. He does a lot of stuff, yeah.

5:09 And then good one came in end of 2018, I think. You're probably like number four. Yeah, four or five, can't remember. But the idea was to go to market with the sleeve. But that market got away

5:21 from us.

5:23 What do you mean? Apache and - What do you mean by that? Well, I think all the sleeve guys try to come down in the US. Yeah. Because they were like, we have this pinpoint system, you get better

5:32 fracks, more predictable, frack propagation, this is it. But lower 48 guys are like, hey, we just run plug and perf and we pump the shit out of our wells, we're increasing profit, we get

5:46 better wells. And so there's kind of this back and forth between like which technology is better Yeah. And Plug and Perf kind of won that tug of war, right? And so you had a few holdouts in the US,

5:58 Hess being one of them, I think they were running sliding sleeves up in the Bakken up until 2019. Yeah, so the only place that I saw sleeves at around that time was up in the Bakken. Was up in the

6:08 Bakken. Yeah. But they eventually switched to Plug and Perf, which suggests that maybe you are getting a better one. Yeah. Very well. Yeah. But you're probably also breaking up more rock and

6:18 introducing other elements like parent, child communication, but that's a super discussion. Yeah So luckily, Mohammed, being kind of the completions guru, he is, had a war chest of like patents

6:29 and ideas that he just kind of collected throughout the years. You need to meet him at some point.

6:34 And so he was like, all right, well, what else can we do? And so the logical pivot - A classic pivot. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The logical pivot was frack plugs. And so, you know, we were

6:45 kind of working on that. We had this frack plug design which works with a flapper mechanism, which basically allows you have contingency in the event of any type of issue when you're. you're

6:54 setting plugs. So like in a preset, a screen out, we have this frat plug designed. Perf gun misfire. Perf gun misfire. That allows you to bypass the plug and I'll effectively cancel it, right?

7:05 Like you said it and you're like, Oh shit, I need to cancel that. There's a mechanism and procedure to do that. And so that was one idea that we had. We started working on that. And the other

7:16 idea kind of came to us just by luck and through connections And so this is where we get to refracts. So independent operator in the Eagle Furt, probably shouldn't name the names, came to us and

7:31 said, Hey, look, we've

7:34 done a study on all the refract technologies. We found what we think works the best in terms of just reliability and productivity. But at the time they were running, what industry calls a cut and

7:46 pull refract, like our back off refract Yeah, and so they would run. an industry of casing inside of an existing well bore, they'd run it all the way to the surface, they'd go back in and run a

7:58 cutter

8:00 and basically pull out the remaining drill string, your vertical section and set that aside and kind of reuse that in an existing well. And when it worked, it worked great because you had fool's on

8:11 all isolation, your purse would propagate where you wanted them to go. And you're basically plugging perfect like you would a brain normally, yeah But half the time, they would cut through their

8:22 existing string of casing, the five and a half inch in the Eagleford. And so when that happens. It's pretty hard to control a jet cutter. Yeah. Yeah. So you know this probably better. It's

8:32 anything that intervention related, interventions, you know, just are prone to issues, whether it's accidental or unintended consequences, things like that. So they're just running into

8:43 multi-year problems, so. Yeah, yeah. So that was probably half the time They were doing these jobs, they'd have failures. Um, so they came to vertice and he said, hey, it'd be nice if we had

8:54 a tool that we could just run, um, attached to the industry of casing that were running and hydraulic, hydraulically disconnect. And Muhammad just like gets out of his sheet of paper. He's like,

9:07 all right, mocks up a tool two or three months later that tool is running in whole in Carnes County. That's crazy. Yeah I think this was May of 2019, everything went flawlessly. But basically

9:22 that went from, you know, drilling or a refract cycle that would probably take anywhere from 25 to 30 days and they've gotten that down to like 10 in terms of like AFE costs on refract that went,

9:37 that almost got cut in half. Like they were probably doing these jobs for five, six million. Now you could do refract for two and a half to four and when I say refract, I mean, mechanically

9:45 isolated refract, we kind of are guilty of conflating that with like bullhead refracts, They're technically refracts, but industry's kind of migrated to zonal isolation and mechanically isolated.

9:57 Yeah, you know, I started running refract liners from Venture, which is expandable casing back in 2014, 2015. And we're doing a lot of those up in the Barnett, with like Chesapeake and some of

10:11 these. And ideal was, you know, we'd go run, you know, call it 2, 000, 3, 000 feet of

10:17 pipe, and we'd expand it and had a last summer spaced out And that expandable to isolate your perfs, 'cause back then, people were just trying to dump seam it and plug perfs in like learned really

10:29 quickly that hey, it just goes into the heel and

10:34 you're not able to, it didn't work. And they're trying all different types of like resins and, you know, different chemicals and shit like that. And like the answer was, no, you need to go down

10:44 there and actually set new pipe and get isolation. Problem with expandable pipe is that it's expensive.

10:52 I don't know what it costs now, I'm sure it's something similar, but it's about100 a foot. It's like4 million to do it. Yeah. Yeah. It works. It's great when it works. Like you have big ID and,

11:02 you know, you can get those down pretty easily. Yeah. And so, but I was interested when I saw you all's tool because one, it sounds like it's probably much cheaper solution to get it, get it

11:15 down whole. And then hearing the story of mom coming up with it in two months later, having it I mean, down in a well, it's pretty fucking impressive. I mean, this is, you know, always laugh

11:26 like tech founders in Silicon Valley, you know, they're, they're dealing with, with bits and it's like, yeah, it's easy to make software and ship it, but to make your data is like, yeah, this

11:38 complex, like, casing system is, It's pretty impressive. The MVP, I guess, is the tech-ass color, right? It's much different in down-hole tools, right? It's much different when you're

11:47 trashing a multi-million dollar well-bore or, you know, get someone to carry. I can't even see what happens. Instead of just shipping some code to see if an email works. So the tool, explain to

11:56 me how it works. All right, this is where you kind of, we have to be fun of friend. All right, we'll look at one, come take the mic. Yeah, so we, you know, back then, I mean, there's an

12:07 evolution. So back from 2019 to today, there's probably been multiple evolutions of optimization, tool design changes and stuff like that. But what we focused on early on was trying to just, you

12:19 know, create something that was conventional, simple. So back then, it was kind of hydraulically actuated via ball drop, just, but it was optimized for a specific hole size. So what Alex was

12:32 mentioning is kind of these mechanical isolate refracts, like, and with expandables, You know, you're putting a specific size liner. inside a five and a half or inside a three and a half. And,

12:43 you know, you have to have the biggest ID so you can put plug and guns and plugs through it for the frack. Then you also have to have a slimness OD 'cause you're trying to pump cement and you're

12:54 trying to isolate that angle. So you kind of like kind of have two big constraints that you don't, you have them in say normal new wells but it's a lot bigger, a lot bigger tools, a lot bigger

13:05 clearances and things like that. So, so essentially the first iteration was a simple liner system, more of a drop off line or not even a liner hanger system at that time and made it to where had

13:18 the right ID, the right OD's, you know, where you can rotate and do all those things. And then at the end of the job, we were able to drop a ball and release. So what we did is we just kind of

13:28 optimized specifically like fit for a purpose, if you will, for that type of application. So on that system, would you run this down on string inner an as tubing have you would, Essentially?,

13:38 on. the casing and then drop a ball down and disconnect, or how did you guys - So we wouldn't have like an interstring, probably like maybe like you're familiar, like some of the off-shore stuff

13:48 is just a workstring. And at that time, actually, it was, this is very, this is very early days. People were actually running four inch case and all the way to surface and just putting our tool

13:57 kind of in the middle. And then they realized, oh, this works really well. So we can just cross over to, you know, like a two and seven eighths, two and three eighths workstring or something

14:05 like that. So, and that made, that optimized things even further So, and then you just, you know, at that time you drop a ball to release. Since then we've kind of optimized some more

14:16 mechanically released liner system, liner hangers, like a multitude of different type of packers to optimize for refracts. Yeah. But it's kind of, it's kind of interesting. And the application

14:29 as a whole for, you know, some people call it in case in case in refracts or mechanically isolated refracts.

14:37 It's kind of like doing some of the same stuff drilling guys you for new wells but. you also have to clean them out, be an intervention guy to be able to clean them out, then you also have to know

14:45 the fracks out of things. So it's - That's the thing, man. Like when I was running expandables, like 80 of the work was in cleaning out the well bore and getting into a condition. And some people

14:57 just didn't understand this and try to cut corners on our clean out procedure. You do that, that's a bad time. Yeah, for expandables, it's

15:07 definitely, it matters even more because of the tight tolerances Yeah, for sure, yes, I became an expert in fishing out expandables. And yeah, so just that well-bored prep is it's another beast

15:21 too, especially if you have any sand coming in from perfs, just trying to get tools down to bottom when you have those really tight clearances and restrictions. And so, yeah, it's pretty

15:33 interesting to hear, you know, you have to take both the ID and a consideration because obviously you wanna limit the amount of ID restriction that you have to be able to get tools but then you have

15:46 considerations for the annulus, the size of the annulus too. And so when you guys run one of these, do you have to pump cement behind it? Yeah, so if you're, it's kind of, you know, there's

15:60 been some trials with an uncemented and using multitude of packers in between stages, kind of like the old sleeve systems that people were using, but it's kind of, the industry's kind of

16:10 standardized on pumping in a specific type of cement. It's like latex cement. So it's just because that tight angle is, when you pump it with latex cement, lower pressure, you're able to move the

16:21 cement and get it all the way back to surfaces, or not all the way back to the line shop, if you will. Okay. So yeah, you're covering it up with cement, you're covering those old purse with

16:30 cement, you're trying to cover the lateral as best possible with pretty uniform cement. It's not much cement, I think it's like 20 barrels. But like for you for like 30, 35 barrels, you know?

16:42 Hard though. Interesting point, you know, you're pumping cement and you have old perfs behind pipe, you know, potential for those perfs to take that cement. So it's kind of hard to know what

16:53 volume you need. It is. And that does happen like, so we do some refrag liners in the Bakken and

17:01 sometimes we're pumping like two to 300 excess cement in those scenarios because they're accounting for how much cement they're gonna lose during that job. Yeah, for sure. And latex tends to do a

17:11 good job and fill up some void space too, but you're gonna have losses. Almost every job, like you prefer not as much as other places, but you'll always lose something. Yeah, I imagine. Yeah,

17:23 latex, cement, I'm not familiar with that. So I'll have to go look that up. Yeah, it's kind of, I'm not a cement expert as well, but it's kind of like the latex. I mean, I'm familiar with

17:33 it's not saying much because I don't know much about cement anyway.

17:38 But, you know, it's kind of similar to kind of like latex paint design, so what I understand, but yeah, interesting. But it works for this, you know, to give you an example, if you were to

17:48 pump conventional cement in these refracts with this tight annulus, you'd be at like 10, 000 psi, like a barrel or maybe two barrels a minute while pumping it Yeah. Versus like latex, you can be

17:59 like 3, 000 psi at three, four barrels a minute. Got you. So it's a big, big difference. Got you. Yeah. So for you guys is for vertices, that the focus of the company now is these refract

18:12 liners, or do you all have any other tools and services that you'll do? I mean, I would say what probably half the business is refract focused Okay. I mean, we've kind of found our niche, and

18:26 it's a space that a lot of. customers come to us for the first time they've done it. So it lean on us a lot. And so we, so from our technical side of things and kind of engineering horsepower

18:38 tends to lean more to the refract side and the technologies and equipment, but the other half our business is like new completions and frack plugs and fracks leaves, some traditional liner hangers

18:48 as well. What does it look like if the EMP engages with y'all from like the engineering side on y'all side, you know, like when I was at adventure, I mean, every we had standard systems, but we

19:02 had to make sure that, you know, every system was engineered for that specific application. And so we had a bunch of engineers that were, you know, doing those, it wasn't like you just take one

19:11 tool off the shelf and go run it. And anyway, so if EMP engages with y'all, what does that process look like? Because you mentioned it may be their first time doing a, doing a refract. So do you

19:22 guys help consult? Um, or do you just say, Hey, what are you trying to get our tool down hole and get it set. I think it depends on how sophisticated the operator is and if they've done it before

19:34 but something that Alex has been instrumental on here recently is for operators that haven't ever done a refract or they're trying to identify they say hey we have these thousand wells and this part

19:47 of the Eagleford or whatever basin they're in we've been able to help identify through Alex's kind of background and horsepower help them identify like candidates like refract candidates and and

20:01 select the best refract candidates so we've kind of been doing some consulting on that side yeah um I don't know if you know I'm kind of sure so yeah depends on operator but some operators come to us

20:12 and we're like hey we don't know anything about refracts can you just tell us like just give us a lay of the land who's doing what like doesn't work take a look at our wells tell us you know what you

20:21 think may or may not work so for those operators we can help with the candidate selection so I built this database that basically looks at the entire universe that we've been able to pull data on for

20:34 mechanically isolated refracts, pull the production data, and build this simulator that can - it's almost like predictive analytics. I know you're doing some AI stuff with some of your tools. But

20:47 basically, if you give me any API number, we can pull that well, look at the production data,

20:53 see which county it's in, see who the operator is, and we can plot with the ARPS equation, what we think the refract type curve will look like. And generally,

21:03 we've kind of back tested this, and the accuracy has been pretty high, because if you think about it, you're refracking a well that you already know what the geology looks like. You can have

21:13 production data, right? Like you have a free look into like geology. You don't have to run logs or anything like that. You got closeology, you know, what your neighborhood wells look like And so

21:23 you've already been downholing, drilled the well and produced. have as much data as you're ever gonna have on it. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, so you can plot what you think the production's gonna

21:31 be to pretty accurately. Then you can go build your AFE. Like, all right, I think it's 5, 000 foot lateral. It'll probably cost me three in change to do it. And then you can model economics.

21:43 And so like we can help with that on the front end. And we can also kind of compare where the operators acreages or their PDPs are relative to, you know, where other operators have refract. And so

21:56 like, if you tell me you're in Carnes County, I can pull every single refract in Carnes County and map production for that refract that helps you get an idea of like, what do you think the

22:07 production curve will look like? Yeah. So, you know, it sounds like people are having success with refracts down in the Eagleford. What are you guys seeing in the other basins? You know, one is

22:19 their activity or people trying to do this out in other basins now. Are they having any success with it? Like I mentioned, we were doing those ones with Chesapeake in the Barnett a long time ago.

22:30 Obviously,

22:32 people are gonna be looking at how to extract more value out of their assets and the Permian. And so, what are you all seeing on that front from a macro perspective in the industry or people

22:43 exploring it? Yeah. So, if you think about just top three basins for reef rack activity, Eagle Fords up there.

22:51 Talk big picture about the market It's probably a five or 600 mechanically isolated reef racks that we're aware of. We've done almost half of them.

23:01 And so, when you parse through that data, about, I think, 250 or 300 are in the Eagle Fords. Bach, and you probably have 100 to 150 Haynesville, probably 50-ish. And the rest is kind of

23:13 scattered throughout the rest of Lower 48. Gotcha. But in terms of activity, Eagle Fords is kind of front and center because we know it works I think you had Barb, Barbella on. few months ago,

23:23 and he's a big proponent about frack reorientation being one of the reasons why the productivity is so good. But you have a lot of well control. You know, if you're in Carnes trough, so that's

23:35 Carnes County, DeWitt County, live to an extent, like you're going to have a good well. And so, you know how the industry

23:51 is, right? They find something that works, someone has done a bunch of them, conicos done about 50 per year in Carnes trough for, I don't know, past four or five years. Yeah, which is funny

23:54 because I talked about like using sleeves in the lower 48, it was Conoco, Burlington, formerly that we're doing the sleeves up and up in the block. And so, it's funny to hear them, you know,

24:03 come up in both the sleeve and the refract conversations because I've seen them doing both of those things. And I think, you know, you referred to lead the way in the last few years for refracts,

24:17 but based on what we've talked to operators. I think this year, or at least by next year, Bocken will probably have more refrack well counts than Eagleford, 'cause you're seeing a lot more other

24:32 players try for the first time there. Yeah, to give you an example of that without naming customers, but there were two operators last year that probably did in the Bocken that did somewhere

24:45 between five and 10 refracks in the Bocken. This year, I think both of them are gonna do 50 plus each And so like they've gone from like five to 50. Yeah, they've just got like a year. Yeah,

24:58 yeah. Hopefully we see that kind of pickup elsewhere, but you know, if you're talking total numbers, I think last year was around 150 line of refracks, they sure we think it's gonna be three to

25:07 400. So like it's, meanwhile, you got the rig count that just keeps going down. So like this is kind of like one of the shining spots within industry where it's gonna have activity that's actually

25:17 growing on the ups. Earlier, you gave out a statistic about the cost of refracks going down. over those numbers again. Yeah, so we've seen as low as two and a half. Yeah. I mean, you have some

25:28 operators that are cowboys and they're like, Is that end to end? Yeah. I mean, with, with, with. There's pressure pumpings like probably 80. I was gonna say, that's a cost of the cost. Yeah.

25:38 Yeah, and you're seeing some people do some interesting things on the fracks. I did try to reduce that cost. So, you know, what I would call the sophisticated refract guys, they're also doing

25:49 these in conjunction with new fracks So, they'll have like a refract well in the pad and I have three new wells and they'll kind of zip them in and they're getting some cost savings 'cause that'll

25:58 fracks us. Yeah, you can't even scale. 'Cause if you're just doing, and some of you are doing single, single well refracts and they do work, but the pressure pumping cost is kind of through the

26:07 roof 'cause you have a crew that's on location that's able to pump 120, 130 barrels a minute, but you're only pumping, say 70 to 90 on a refract. And that's a lot of pay for the one-to-one.

26:18 You're still paying for it. And then plus, if it's a single while you have that downtime while you're pumping water on it all. You see some innovation come around a solution that's more

26:26 cost-effective for single-well applications. 'Cause like right now it makes sense. It's like if you can group it up with new fracks, take advantage of economies of scale. Okay, cool. You already

26:38 have the current location, but you know there's probably gonna be a lot of single refracts out there too. So it's like, how can you do that? Yeah, and I've just heard recently, I mean, I think

26:49 people have been using this term, they call it remote fracks, where people run basically a model line or a remote line from a new LPAT to a refract path. That's exactly where my mind went. That's

26:59 like 2, 000 feet or more away. I forget that someone told me this like a couple of weeks ago, the distance was kind of absurd. That's exactly where my mind went. And I was like, what I love

27:09 about the little field is that we're some resourceful and innovative motherfucking. He's like, we'll figure out a way to do it. We will figure it out, that's right. That's awesome. Yeah,

27:17 imagine the having high pressure lines going across, you know, 2, 000 feet. That's something else. I don't wanna get out of my band, I wanna stay here.

27:27 It's funny how they break and whip it off and tag you from half a mile away. And the thing is you'll have wire line over there on that one well over there. It's 2, 000 feet away or whatever And

27:36 they won't even know you're fracking unless they can hear the

27:40 engine step far away. So it is kind of interesting. Yeah, that is definitely interesting. Is Ritesh based here in Houston? Yeah, well, we're in Stafford, Texas. So just on the south side of

27:53 town, yeah. Y'all, is that where the yard is too? Or if you'll have yard's tomorrow? Yeah, this is our main hub office and shop where we build all the equipment and send them out. satellite

28:07 space and other basins, but it's more kind of a more storage-stage equipment and things like that. But pretty much all the equipment's built here and shipped from here for the most part. About to

28:20 come out sometime in a recorded video at the shop, take a look at the tool and how it works. That'd be good. You could probably explain it to me better than.

28:32 Just look at it and go, that's how it works. It's a Chinese finger trap If you ever want to get some man days as a liner hangerhand again, let me know. We're always looking. Yeah, it's funny is

28:44 we just went and shot this YouTube video with underdog wire line on what is the wire line. Oh yeah, I saw that. It was a million dollar wire line. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a badass video.

28:52 Anyways, just yesterday on Twitter, it's what I told a underdog, it's like, Hey, y'all should let me run wire line for a day, come out to a frack job and record some content. Oh yeah, it is.

29:01 I was telling the team as a dude, if I went back and like worked in the little field for like six months, I probably have a million followers on this. It's like, it seems like that's like a worthy

29:09 six month stint to go do that. You know, I went down this rabbit hole watching like truckers that just like deliver loads and like there's some truckers that have like millions of followers and

29:18 there's like going proing everything. There's some roughnecks and like pipe liners on TikTok that have millions of followers and that's what I'd tell people. It's like the work that we do is really

29:26 fucking interesting. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And we take it for granted because we're surrounded by it all the time, but it's like, it's like the type of stuff that we're talking

29:34 about on the show Like this is cool fucking technology and it's hard problems too, right? For sure. So smart people solving, solving hard problems, that's what, that's what I love about the

29:42 industry. So, you know, for you guys, if anyone's listening to the show, and they want to check out Vertease and get some, get some info on refrack liners, what can they find you guys? What's

29:57 the website? Yeah. I mean, we're, we're both of us from LinkedIn, websites just for teasoldtoolscom

30:03 They can acquire on there. Perfect pretty pretty easy to find and cool. Yeah, redash frack. That's right. Yeah, we do your own

30:13 To hire as well. You'll have a job on collide. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that I put out a bounty the other day I said if anyone refers someone to this job, I'll pay him 500 bucks. I'm not a jiu-jitsu.

30:23 Oh my god Yes, you

30:25 know interesting sat like 25 of our workforce does jiu-jitsu Is that right? Yeah, we have 20. I think 18 to 20 employees and like over five of them, you know, we're probably the same I mean, we

30:37 have me Jake Julie So it's three people right there out of 13. So that's our prerequisite. Yeah You got a role with me

30:51 So go check out collide jobs They're looking for a technical Sales manager, I believe was the yeah techno sales rep in midline. Actually. Okay. Okay. Cool. Yep. So check that out on collide And

31:05 if you refer someone to it and they get hired, hit me up and I'll pay you 500 bucks for it. So cool. Guys, appreciate y'all taking the time. If y'all enjoyed this episode, make sure to share it

31:16 with a friend. Reach out to both of the Alex's. They're great guys to chop it up with. So appreciate y'all coming on the show.